Ep 7: F**k Lost Highway!

Hello this is Sean and welcome to fuck your opinion a movie review podcast before we get started please make sure to like follow subscribe, write a review of this podcast wherever you are listening right now and please be sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram all those are linked in the description enjoy the episode I want to clear the air right now in the past I've been drinking alcohol during these recordings on my wall special sauce now that I'm actually editing these I and I'm sure you know, folks and I've come to find out definitely not a helper so I'm definitely not drinking any more that I'm just all coffee all the times coffee and PT assure, yeah, pump that PD shirt into my veins. Let's jump in our cars and hit the last highway which is actually a hotel as any viewer might find out later on in the film if you make it that far at the hotel. Yeah, you didn't see that shot at one point that the car pulls up in front of the hotel and the headlights shine on the name it says last highway hotel when it's it's where they it's it's where they go before they go to the cabin in the desert. It says last highway hotel you weren't paying attention at all Where are you mean the motel? No, not the most on this you're when you say motel You mean the motel they go to earlier on in the film? No they go to a hotel called The Lost Highway hotel hotel. They kind of just bang it out and then they leave and the police officers the watching right not at this point. No. He's he's he's still belt is our Getty but he's about to be Bill Pullman again. I don't anyways. Is there anything else you want to say before I do the intro? No, no, it's your podcast. You do the intro? I'm just here, man. Yeah, along for the ride. Mm hmm. Our long run along for the ride on the Lost Highway 30% of the terrible right. I would not get on that if someone offered me. Do you want to ride on the last highway? I didn't you can't because it's a hotel. It's not an actual highway that incentivizes me even more. Let's just get started. All right. Hello folks, and welcome to fuck your opinion. Your favorite podcast where we remove where we owe you. Are you drunk? I assure you I've been drinking a little bit of wine before but not much. Hello folks and welcome to fuck your opinion your favorite hopefully favorite movie review podcast where asshole Jani and I watch movies one of us picks a movie we really like the other one has to endure torture and pain. In this case, I was the ladder I had to endure whatever it is I watch. I'm not entirely sure what I watched. It was something it was what they call motion pictures moving images. That's what I watched beyond that. I can't tell you those those three YouTube video essays couldn't explain it either. Yeah, it specifically the watch through so you're jumping ahead. So this week unfuck. Your opinion we watched Giannis pic of last highway. Jani. Why did you pick this movie for me? Why? Well, Shawn, at the end of last week, I was going over my mind what would be a good pick to follow up Scooby Doo because I knew we had a mystery there. And so the first thing I started leaning towards was blue velvet. Good mystery there. But the thing is, I know you might like blue velvet, or at least there was a chance that you might like blue velvet. So I started thinking about other David Lynch films that I know you definitely would not enjoy watching. And so my natural conclusion was Lost Highway as one does it. All that aside, it feels to me like a very personal story for Lynch, something that actually in a way kind of allegorically examines his struggle to adapt into the advent of the Digital Millennium. It's often forgotten by a lot of Lynch fans often overshadowed by the commercial success of Twin Peaks earlier in the decade or the critical success of Mulholland Drive like four years later, I think it was like 2001 This was 97 it's definitely a film that is worthy of some attention. So I figured in addition to the fact that you'd hate it, let's give it a shot and give it a shot we did. I shot writing right to my head right to just I don't know, everything I hold dear. Speaking of which, Shawn, tell me what let's let's get yourself Folks, this is the part of the show where we start airing a summary from the disinterested or disaffected party. Sean, what's your take on this one? Okay, I have two summary summary number appropriate summary number one frustrated ABCs Miss handling of twin peaks. David Lynch strikes back by remaking one of their biggest hits shows that fugitive crickets, not even the crickets, I think they all fell asleep. By the way. This was the third feature he made after the show Twin Peaks after Twin Peaks fire walk with me and Wild at Heart, but it's him killing it. I'll get your second one. In order to cure his erectile dysfunction. A man makes a deal with the devil instead of taking Roman Roman our sponsor for the week, folks, are you having erectile dysfunction? Don't make it a deal with the devil. Make a Deal with us make a deal with Roman though they'll hook you up with a doctor get you what you need. You sponsor code fuck Jani. Fock. Lost Highway for 10% Oh, I'm just kidding. That's not an actual thing. They don't sponsor us. But Roman. If you would like to sponsor us, we'll take them out. I don't want no I'm sorry. Roman. One of your investors is Serena Williams, his husband and I don't want to take money from him. Well take money from a company that took money from him. Also, it's just by association. I don't want in any way for surrender. Nevermind. Moving on. Yeah, that's a very valid point you made they're very, you know, sure. Yeah. So those are my summaries don't sound like you liked it. Shawn. You know, you really don't want Jani. I didn't like it. But we'll get into that. Well, we'll get into it real soon. Now, you talked about why you pick the film. What I want to know is how do you rate the film? What rating one to 10? Or, you know, possibly zero if you want to go there, which is definitely legitimate, especially with this one, zero to five, what would you give this added head zero to five? Seeing that? Well, series weight zero to five out of 10? You're limiting my rating? Yeah. Well, you know, Sean, I'm probably going to give this a a, a 40 out of five out of 10, which comes to about No, that's not what I gave you. That's not a choice I gave you know, you said zero out of five out of 10. So if I choose a 40 out of five, that's an eight out of 10. give it an eight out of 10. You don't have to you can't restrict me around what I said, you know what I said? You can't You can't place pinions on these wings. I got a fly baby. I gotta take to the sky. What's the sky over the last time? Well, when you actually get eight out of 10. That's my that is seriously going to eight out of 10. That is my rating. I'm sure you have something a lot lower in store for us. Yes, I do. But until then, I hope your audience This is an eight out of 10 film. So I'm really curious, jumping right in, jumping right into that. Let's jump. Okay, well, well, I want to hear what you're going to say cuz I have something I want to say to start off with. But what do you have is just saying, let's just jump into the story. Let's Let's jump. Let's jump into the story. There is none. Now let's talk about the director and cinematography because we talked everything about story that we needed to say. Okay, so there's definitely a story. No, there's definitely a story. I think it's allegorical. It's an entirely allegorical, but I do think it's 100% an actual story. It's just that the timelines get a little messy. And you have this idea of maybe, I don't know, I call it a psychic split. I read that Lynch described it as a psychogenic psychogenic fugue. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly read that when I did my research, as I always extensively do, I'm sure. I saw on Wikipedia, I actually think this is a film that doesn't really have all that much to do with personalities or identity near nearly as much as it appears to on on the surface level with it being an allegorical film. I think this is like I said in my description, I think this is an allegorical examination of Lynch's struggle to adapt to the Digital Millennium at its Advent, and it's got this fatalistic method that it approaches the process with not approaches the process. I'm going to like word in a different way. You weren't in any manual a baby, okay? Please just use the version knife. it approaches the subject with this fatalistic theme that in no matter in what way one might pursue an object of affection, whether it's a woman or what the woman stands for, which I believe is film cinema. Either way, the end of the pursuit for Lynch in a ways is something that spoils or ruins like the characters Alice slash Rene, can it Can I ask a question? Can I ask a follow? Okay? Yeah, sure. Now, if Patricia Arquette represents film, what are her bouncing breasts? What did those represent? Is that the spilling reel? Is that what that is natural? No. Natural superficial is that your brain is the film grain visual sensual appeal on the surface level a lot of cinema it's glitzy it's glamorous, it looks pretty the people always look pretty but I think the message here is that Lynch at one point discovered that this thing that he was so in love with was wicked and filthy beneath all the beauty and believe that or not, you know, that's just my opinion. That's my spin on it. I haven't read any other really analytical literature on this film specifically, but if you look at the turns that Lynch's career took after this film, it would make sense because after Mulholland Drive, he made Inland Empire and I think 2006 and between that and Twin Peaks the return there was an 11 year gap during which he made music and some short films, but never returned to the medium of cinema until What did jack do if you want to call that cinema? That was great. That was pure cinema. But that was last year. So that's about a 13 year daluz I love Twin Peaks, specifically seasons one and two. Yeah, he's charged. Two B's one and one and a half. The first half Oh, come on. Don't Don't lie to them. We all know that Civil War subplot is your favorite part is Twin Peaks. Season Two. I threw that out of my mind. I didn't remember that happened. No, you're just you're you're putting on airs. You're posturing right now. You're just trying to prove it. Okay. So since you're a dissenting party, it's got to be a party. Since you're the dissenting party. Let's start off at the beginning. and work our way through the plot. Yeah, so let's work our way through it. We start with what's the opening scene. That Well, the opening scene is if we're talking about opening credits, same thing that we end on is yes, so those headlights coasting down the highway. I thought that was a great openers. Fantastic. Good opener, partly because it didn't look nice. I liked the music. And I didn't know who was in this movie. So to just constantly be bombarded by names and you go, Wait, what? Wait, wow, right. Richard Pryor Henry Rollins. These people are in a David Lynch movie. Why Marilyn Manson is very jack Nance in a David Lynch movie that was like, Oh, I don't know what Yani signed me up for people love showing up and David Lynch films. They like David Lynch films. He's also a great guy, apparently, in real life seems to me like David Lynch is a great guy, even though I don't like his films. I respect him in that sense, but it's neither here nor there going into the story. So you know, you I'm assuming you looked it up. You saw that this was inspired the whole thing that catapulted the whole story was that one morning David Lynch woke up to hear on his home speaker that some ominous unknown voice said declare rent is dead. And then when he went to go into the door, no one was there that that actually happened to David Lynch. And that's what sparked the whole thing. You didn't look that up. No, I did about that. He had a mystery in his actual life. He wanted to see how he would solve it. Lynch salted in the only way that I think David Lynch Good. Very entertainingly entertaining is not the word I'd use. confusingly to you. It was, it was something like I don't I don't even know. I don't know if I'd say it's confusing. It's just anyways, so the first third of the film follows Bill Pullman and we learn a bit about his life we learn I mean, I guess where he lives that he plays the sax, he plays the sax, he actually learned to play the sax for this move on that one. See, for that one, see, that one solo, he's impotent, and his wife is an alcoholic, and things kind of just don't happen. Like almost nothing happened. No. So let me let me finish let me fucking finish they, and I quote, I don't have a full quote here. But I have part of it about the reading. She dopamine asks, parturition are quiet. What are you gonna do? She says, I'm going to read he says, This is the tone. He doesn't read what? And she giggles and it's like, I didn't know you were so funny. And I'm like, was that funny? What was funny about that line? What was funny about how he said it? He seemed like a serial killer when he said it. So you know their relationship. It's just the way they're it's the way their relationship work. Here's it that's the first thing you know, I know you like this man. Cuz you're basically Bill Pullman in this movie. That's who you are. Basically, Kyle, I'm basically Kyle McLaughlin and Bill Pullman is supposed to be a Kyle McLaughlin type. They just couldn't get him because he was too busy with other commitments. After showgirls almost destroyed his career. You're basically Bill Pullman who was basically Kyle McLaughlin so thank you I take that as a yeah again like common Glock like you're not getting that he's he's exactly Come on. Even though the way the hair to like hang out his forehead. You don't deserve it at least agree with deserve that Kyle was most likely first in mind for this. Me Just because they've worked together, but they'll Pullman didn't at the end of the day, he looks like him. So he says what you're trying to say that it didn't matter who was in it, that it was basically the same because they're not doing a whole lot. Is that what you're trying to say? Well, I think the character is just a conduit for David Lynch is just a stand in for David Lynch himself. Anyways, back to the story. So they receive a videotape at their front door, they go, Oh, what is this? Oh, sorry, I got to what I got to do is every time I do a fake quarter them, what a guy do is pause for way too long of a time and then whisper so they get the videotape. And then they go, what is this? Because that's natural when they watch the videotape of someone who recorded the front of their house, no context or anything, and creepily zooms in and Patricia Arquette is like must be a real estate agent. What How is that your natural first inclination? I don't know. Things could have been different 23 years ago? Absolutely not. I could have had absolutely no, I would have happened. Absolutely not. Hey, Sean, Sean, where did you own mansions drive? Near Mulholland Drive in the late 90s this one this one goes out tell my ladies out here listening if you received a videotape of the front of your house, would you think real estate agent or serial killer stalker? Just which one would you think right off the top of your head? Go? It depends. Don't even don't even it depends. And I know I think it does because she's married their security their their security with multiple Bill Pullman. It's chicken did that there's still gonna be a stalker that comes in and kills them. That doesn't mean I think if you were a single woman, yeah, I'd be a little more. I think it can be she's got Bill Pullman. And he's got a sack. Yeah, he has a saxophone and no video camera. So you know what real protect shot he he likes to remember things the way he wants. And he also has a right countifs function. So he's impotent. Yeah, it's sad, which is another reason why I think he's a standard. I mean, we'll get into this with character later. But it's another reason I think he's a stand in for David Lynch because just like in Eraserhead where I'm pretty sure that I don't remember the character's maiden name. But the character that jack Nance plays racer, he's a character that has some sort of reproductive inferiority. So Paul Polman goes to the club plays a sax he kicks ass, but the lighting is just so stroboscopic is so strobing and so sugared. Okay, so, in case the abstract production design, ominous atmospheric drones, set decoration and idiosyncratic characters speaking intentionally choppy dialogue didn't turn you on to the fact that this is a David Lynch film, the strobe lights at the minute mark. Come on, he's got trademarks. That's one of them is a strobe light in this movie, we're not saying is this a David Lynch film or not question mark. That's like saying, oh, there's an explosion. Are you trying to say that a film Are you trying to share light in a club doesn't make any sense. Is that your argument? That a strobe light in a club makes zero sense it was just it felt like such a invalid and found valid argument. He didn't let me make it. Because everything else was not as I guess, hyperkinetic, to just throw that out there. Like Listen, technically, it's fine, but I found it to be quite jarring. I'm sure that was the intention, but I felt jarring in a more in a slightly comical way. I am assuming you liked it showcases it showcases Fred's emotional state. He's suffering obviously. And by the way, I'm pretty sure the sax solo he was playing was pretty hyperkinetic, too. Yeah, so it's not like there were any other elements audio visually that weren't hyperkinetic in that scene. I'm not saying it that wasn't there. It stood out to me as all anyways it stands out he's got he peaks you know that Lynch peaks and a lot of his films. There's a lot of quiet space and that just heightens the peaks of the peaks the peaking peaks that peak speaking of no peaks, their dialogue you can tell Okay, inner dialogue did not peek at all because the sound recordist is probably like, are they talking right now? Am I picking up audio? Also, what dialogue are you talking about? There's like, no, they're like four or five lines in the first 30 minutes of this film. It's really yeah. which I love. Because David Lynch communicates so much without saying it aloud. It's all visually so masterful. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he communicates quite a bit but what he's communicating is, unless it's confusing, and that's part of the point. Yeah, gotta you gotta watch it a little bit. You can't get it off the chin. Yeah, but it's hard to get. Did you get it automatically on the first viewing? I got parts of it. But definitely, here's the thing and you know, I've definitely met shinned that I think a film should have rewatch ability that you shouldn't get everything on the first round and I stand by that point I didn't get everything that I got that I picked up in this go The first time I watched it, but I definitely picked up even more this time. And I enjoy that. I love that so much that I can return and keep gleaning. I'm a cleaner I'd like to glean Oh, you clean it up, boy, clean it, clean it, you know and make any sense. It didn't. Much like this movie. No, this movie made sense more than that joke. Thanks. So I have a note says 17 minutes in.dot.no plot. So that's basically what we talked about. So there's the scene we talked about where Gopalan is having sex with Patricia Arquette and he just can't do it. He's struggling with his relationship with her. He's struggling with his relationship with her mind. You have anybody else who was struggling with a relationship with something they loved at the time after a lot of upset in ruination you. Yeah, sure. No, Patricia Arquette is I can't I'm not speaking with 100% certainty. I don't think I can, but I would be surprised that she was not the what's the phrase? I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to think about this for a second. I would be surprised if it's not the I would be surprised I would be surprised if she's not the allegorical stand in for his love was sent off. Yeah, that's it. You know what, this is a movie that you could throw many interpretations on. And you know what, you're not wrong. That's also not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing that no text or a movie or anything or a noun song is a matter good. I'm just saying it the thing? I think it's I think it's a good thing. I don't think you can say it's a bad thing. I think I think that a film has multiple interpretations that are all equivocal, not necessarily equivocal, I'm sure some of the ones that you watch when you're trying to understand what happened or not equivocal so then they get a second videotape and in this video tape stocker who I don't know why they didn't notice before stocker comes in in their house and records them sleeping from high up and they finally realize oh shit, maybe we should call the police so they go in the stalker he's in this video that they're watching that they eventually show to the to the cops. This stalker is in their house, and he makes it to their bedroom and he shoots video of them asleep in their bed. And the cops have a conversation with Bill Pullman that goes something like this. Where's your bedroom? Is this way this is your bedroom? Yes. This is our bedroom. Is there any other bedroom? No, this is our bedroom. Do you sleep here? Yes, we sleep here. Is that your pillow? Yeah. What do you what do you dream about? Okay, I don't really drink boy. No, no, no, I was getting my joke. I don't really dream. I don't want to remember things. So yeah, Bill Pullman. The cops question him about the videotape and the possibilities of it. And then they asked him if he has because this is an important bit to mention. They asked him if he has a video camera much like the whoever's recording them and he says no because he doesn't want to I guess have tangible I forgot the exact quote but he doesn't want to have he wants to remember it thing likes remembering things the way he does. He does not the way they were Yeah, something like that. Yeah, phrasing it was something like that. So then the cops leave they go to a party he gets the mystery man he has the conversation this really fantastically sound designed conversation for all you dislike Lynch or however confused you are the technical aspects the sound design, the cinematography, all of that you have to give him props for especially in this one scene. It's so unsettling the way this conversation transpires. I thought the way that he took a crowd of people and said, I'm the director, I want you to be dead quiet or acting like you're doing something that just is super impressive. That's not I'm not talking about directing a crowd right now. That's just filming logistics. Obviously, you want people to be quiet. What I'm talking about is sound design. And in most in most movies, in most films, when two characters are having a conversation in a crowd, what the sound designer is going to do is they're going to bring the ambience the crowd ambience level down to something that's realistic, but not so loud that it overpowers the main dialogue but with this, it just drops it down to absolute zero and all you hear is that atmospheric drone and Robert Blake and Bill Pullman's dialogue and it's really unsettling, especially considering what they're talking about. Yeah. My favorite line in the whole movie too. That's fucking crazy, man. I wrote that down. Let's see. Yeah, that's a GIF. I keep the eye that GIF on my people I haven't written down is I wrote that quote. But I said with little emotion. So I got to know That's fucking crazy man. And that's how I describe this movie. He's nonplussed. He doesn't know how to react course he's gonna say it with little emotion. He doesn't know this guy, and he's talking about shaking his house if that wasn't his reaction to everything Sure. Well, he's a very he's a very drained character. I think that's what you're supposed to get out of him. He's emotionally very empty at this point in his life like some because it doesn't sound like he's particularly happy in his occupation. Definitely not happy in his marriage is impotent, which, speaking from experience. You're just waiting. You're waiting for him to say something? Thanks. Thanks, Jani. But No, he's not. He's he's unhappy. I think he's emotionally numb. Is there a reason why he didn't try playing the trombone chart. If you talk to a saxophone player, and you tell them that they need to try the trombone, they're going to stick that saxophone down your throat? You don't even make a recommendation like that. That's offensive. If he wasn't liking it, though. Okay, fine. Maybe percussion is his way to go. Try the triangle. You know, you can't go wrong with that. Hey, Sean, do you enjoy your work? I love it. I love it. Jani. My let's imagine just imagine that you weren't loving it that you didn't love your job. Oh, okay. But you still wanted to stay in your career field. You wanted to stay in your career path. So if you didn't love it, do you think you're just going to throw that all away and go be a longshoreman somewhere in the Atlantic? You know, I'm open to new opportunities. Bring it i'm not saying that the jump from saxophonist to trombonist is that big that there's that much of a valley between those two but that doesn't mean he's going to stop playing the sax he's got the key free. He he he freestyles very well, Bill Pullman Well, I'll say good. It's on the radio sometimes too. When auto shops all my listeners who are trombonist longshoremen, please write in and talk about how much Giannis shitting on you and how it's you don't appreciate that and just how much you hear for it. I didn't say anything about Trump but bad about trombonists or anything bad about longshoremen or anything bad about whatever it is you do for work or money or you know if it's stripping? I don't know. And I didn't say anything bad about saxophonists. I'm not a stripper. No, you can never be a stripper. I wouldn't pay for you. Yeah, most people want it. But anyways, interaction is great. It's unsettling. I loved it, love that whole party scene. And there's a lot of information that carries over that that's information that is important to the rest of the story that you should be paying attention to that if you're not paying attention to can affect how you perceive the rest of the film. Let me ask you this Johnny, the mystery man, how can he exist? How is he a person? What is he that doesn't make any sense? There's a cinematic manifestation of the inevitability of the digital age, because every time his character shows up on screen, he's always holding some sort of New Age technology, whether it's a cell phone in that conversation with Bill Pullman at the party, or the next time you see him when he has the digital camera on hand, or the last time you see him when he hands Robert lotia a portable television before he kills him. I think he's he's the inevitability of the 21st century's media and its multiple forms. Okay, so Bill Pullman discovers the next tape after a night of just walking around his his house and in and out of hallways, and Patricia Arquette looking for him. And then she disappears and he finds another videotape, and it's of him bending over his dead wife's corpse. And then he's in police headquarters, and he's being interrogated. And you hear that he's been was judged. condemned to death. What do you what how do you say that? He'd been Harrison Ford it? Yeah, sure. He'd been framed, and he goes to prison. And at some point, he starts feeling headaches. And one night he has a kind of psychotic split. And the next morning, they discover about this are getting in his cell. I just want to draw to react to that, Shawn. Oh, first thing I want to say I want to drop this hint right now, because we're going to talk about this later. But I don't want to talk about now or I'm talking about Henry Rollins later. That's coming up this morning. You folks just getting you pumped and excited. skipping over that. Now. I know you want to know more about Henry Rollins as prison guard, but we'll get to that in a bit. Anyways. Yeah. When that happened, the quote that the one of the other prison guards, not Henry Rollins, but other ones said, I'm not entirely certain what happened you want to see it for yourself that I feel like is very descriptive of the whole movie. And really, what I ended up what I ended up doing throughout most of this movie is just pulling quotes and go like yeah, that describes this whole movie in a nutshell. For example, one I forgot to mention before was never should have come here in the first place. You know, I hear and competent people overcompensate a lot. I have another one coming up. as smooth as shit from a duck's ass, okay, all these all these quotes here, you're pulling up there. They usually come from more humorous moments for how much you found How often? Oh my gosh, come on. There are definitely funny moments in this movie. There was always a funny moment in a Lynch movie, multiple funny moments in Lynch movies, you can find me You can fight me over Cold War, but when it comes to David Lynch, you cannot disregard the fact that he has a sense of humor. He does. I thought that Robert will get into a want to get into but that Robert lohja scene where he was beating up that guy, that's pretty good tailgating. Yeah. But it's, it's great. It's his sense of humor. It's that was the one scene I really like. Oh, there's so much more to it than if we're talking about sense of humor. It always it just it ranges from innocent to sardonic, but it's never polarizing or self aggrandizing like ostentatious. It's very grounded. and refreshing back to Henry Rollins, prison guard. Okay, so they discover Whoa, Bill Pullman is no longer in this cell. It's soggetti Pete I'm never gonna repeat the whole bellows are getting so that's such a fun name to say Belkin. Sorry, Daddy, if you're listening to this. I love saying your name. thank thank your parents every morning when you wake up. But he announced that I want to call up anyways. Pete wakes up his name if it weren't for me. prison guards are confused. So they let them go. Sure. And we as the audience are like, what the fuck? That was not how I thought that was gonna go though. Totally upset your expectations. And then I thought and this is kind of going forward but not entirely, I thought was gonna change again because I didn't entirely know what was going to go on what was happening? Well, depending on how you think it ends he does change again. Possibly. I thought I mean to a third person as opposed to back the bill Pope you know, no, I mean, like after Bill Pullman when he's back on the last highway or the highway and he's freaking out you know, he sees an up he's he's they've layered on some swelling makeup on him. He's got sharp teeth. He's about to make a transformation into another another personality another identity. Well, in the film analysis, I watched that was him getting electric chaired That was him dying. That doesn't sound accurate at all. It sounds totally inaccurate. Okay, so the film analysis I watched was saying the only thing that really happened was Bill poling getting punched in the nose till him in his cell everything before it was him we're counting his memories of everything to the police, Allah He says, I want to remember things how I remember them, everything him as P is him kind of thinking what he wanted his life to be him being sexually being able to be be able to perform a more idealized version of it. And then when that happens at the end is kind of him being taken out of that false reality that fantasy and being electrocuted. But that's one interpretation. Because the thing is, this movie can be a million things, you know, you can say, but that doesn't mean but that doesn't make any sense. I don't think it makes any more or less sense in your art. I think it makes far less sense because when Bill Pullman makes the transformation into belphegor Getty he has the exact same makeup the lighting is the same he's also riding around on the ground the same way he does when he's in the car at the very end but that's not that's not him being electrocuted, that's him changing personalities or characters or whatever you want to call it. Listen, that's just one interpretation. That's not even my interpret. That's I know what I'm saying is that doesn't track for David Lynch. That's not the kind of movie Lynch makes, but it can here's the thing, he's making a movie that's not very clear cut. It can be whatever you want. However, you are you trying to shine down an opposing point of view? Is that why you can make that up? But that's like the sort of like lazy theorizing, you see with a bunch of movies where people are like, Okay, well, this is the point he died, and then everything else was a dream. And then the very ending is how he died. You know, it's the movie stops here. And this is all just a memory. It's a dream. It's a it's all just a an autistic kids imagination. And the and the hospital was in a snow globe the whole time. It's that it's just that's a lazy, that's a lazy theory. Well, that's that that's what my theory this movie was. We were in a snow globe the whole time. That's, that's not how David Lynch really works. I'm saying, Okay, sure. It's a theory. It's probably just as valid as mine, but I highly doubt it. The arrogance, the arrogance. I mean, Oh, I'm sorry. I haven't do you do you watch David Lynch films? No, I know. That's familiar with his work because I don't I don't I'm not very familiar with his work. I so you can't you can say that you really don't know the style. No, I don't. I really I mean, I know to a degree because I see Some of his things but I'm not being ignorance. The ignorance Should I just add that into the bad boys episode? Every time you say something I say the ignorance you don't know Michael Bay. You don't know how to call me Eric you calling me arrogant and by the way I probably do know Michael Bay as well as you do I probably see just as many of his movies as you did you watch a painting game? You don't know I didn't but and how are you seeing the raw you see six on the ground? You know? No, I didn't. Then how about you? Did you see back? Did you see Did you see the meatloaf? The the meatloaf? I would do anything for love, but I won't do that music video but it seems to me that that's the only thing you've seen of his. Besides bad I've seen Armageddon I've seen bad boys. I've seen the rock I've seen Transformers I've seen what the island. What have you seen Transformers Dark of the Moon? Okay, I've seen all of them. But I don't remember if Michael Bay actually directed them because they all seemed pretty good. All of them except Bumblebee. But okay, well, that's just Yeah, I've seen all of them. I've seen two fewer than you have. I guess the point is my mistake. A point is there is not one interpretation of Lost Highway yours that is perfectly valid that other guys I watched perfectly valid to you want to know what my interpretation of it is? No, I don't. My interpretation is that before I watched this movie I went on because folks, part of how we choose the movies we watch is what is streaming. So we generally go off of Netflix or Amazon Prime because that's what we both have Yani really wanted to do last highway. So we had to both get star seven day free trials. Before I watched this movie, I went through the entirety of the stars catalog and just added all the movies that I'd rather watch. Instead, it was about 90 films. I'd rather watch all of those instead. So my interpretation of this film is I'd rather have it rather watch Tequila Sunrise, which I'm about halfway through. It's actually not very good. I had high hopes, but it's actually pretty bad. But I still love Kurt Russell. Anyways, so anyways, as my interpretation. My interpretation of this film is like I said, a fugitive. It's the future. ltsr Getty wakes up in the in the jail. His parents, Gary Busey, and an actress whose name escapes me at the moment, pick him up, take him home goes to sleep. And if I was wanting to events, add some support to my claim that this is just a an allegory for where Lynch believed he was at that this particular point with a career was it the genes that gave it away the genes, the jeans represent Gary jeans represent the filmstrip Pete is lying in a lawn chase in his backyard, vibrant green grass, white picket fence in the background. And then he stands up at one point, he goes and looks over his neighbor's fence, and he sees a sprinkler and a dog and a kiddie pool. And those are all images that occur at some point. And I think they're mostly in the beginning of blue velvet around about the time that David Lynch's career really took off following I think, yeah, following Dune and Elephant Man. So what I believe is at this point, Lynch is assessing how his career might begin again, how he might start over his career if he was able to jump back about 10 years to that time to about 1986 1987, during blue velvets release back before his disinterest with film that that seed had begun to the soul. But that's still a similar interpretation to the other one where basically the idea of someone who is frustrated with their life imagining a different version going back to a possibility of a better time for them. Yeah, well, what I'm saying is that it's what I'm saying is that it's not just bill Pullman's character. It's not just this contrived character pretending he had a different existence. It's David Lynch exploring the idea of fatalism that you're destined towards one end, no matter where you start out, you're always going to make the same encounters or some encounter that's going to put you down one path, one road that leads to one inevitable end. That's what the Pete character I think, is it's it's Lynch, analyzing the winds in terms of his career and how it turns out and deciding to step back into the past and see how it might have been different but ultimately realizing that it doesn't change because what happens he meets another film standard, he meets instead of Renee this time, Alice so PJ wakes back up is an analog for David Lynch in the 1980s. And he has a pretty young thing p yt. Named Sheila is painting the town red with her. I don't really think that it's it's obvious that it's not just Fred living in peach skin because Pete recognizes his friends. He knows Mr. Eddie when he meets With him again soon in the auto shop, he recognizes Richard Pryor's character who I can't remember the name of button. I noticed Richard was seen. Yeah, but it was nice seeing him because I miss Richard Pryor. He was actually really good at I know, he was pretty. He was pretty solid, really solid. Well, I didn't want to say in a way, like a condescending way where I'm like, Oh, I expected him to be crap. He's a good actor. It's just it was an extension of his personality, well clear that he was doing more than what he would usually do in a film. Just in one thing, you know, like he did. He did a really solid job. Lynch either wrote the part for him or when he saw that Richard was ideal for the part. He let him build the character around himself. It's not like they were frequent collaborators. It's not like he and Gary Busey were frequent collaborators. Anyways, so so you get to the scene, where you meet Mr. Eddie, Mr. Eddie, he's just crazy. This is This is Robert lohja. You probably read this up too. But Mr. Eddie's character, and it's perfect. His performance, Robert loges performance is based on actually it all goes back to Blue Velvet to fun funnily enough, when Dennis Hopper had already been cast and Robert lotia wanted to try out for Dennis hoppers part and he was made to wait on set for like two or three hours and he got so he was so irate by the time he finally saw David that he just released this invective this angry rant on him, and it would later inspire Mr. Eddie's character and his mannerisms. So when it came time to finally cast Robert lotia, or cast for Mr. Eddie's character, Lynch gave Robert lohja call and he agreed to do it in that rant that he goes on when he forces that tailgater off the road and out of his car, and he points his Desert Eagle I think it's a desert eagle in his face is entirely inspired by the rant that he went on with David on blue velvet. Well, folks, I just want to set the scene because Jani kind of glossed over essentially what happens in the scene p meets up with Eddie, who's a big shot, kind of gangster type. He's like, Oh, you repaired my car. Thank you what let's drive around a little bit. Just make sure it's got all the kinks and it's all good and everything right. So they're driving around on Mulholland, and there's a tailgater right behind him. robber Luiza gets really pissed off waves the guy on guys just being a total dick goes ahead, but Robert lusia can't take it. So Robert lusia with his new pristine car Rams into the guy says you know what, I'll take the bill. I just want to prove a point. Fuck this guy. So smashes into him, smashes them off to the side of the road and then points a gun at the guy like starts beating him points is gonna have and just goes on like a full tirade, scaring the crap out of the guy. I'm sure he took a shit in his pants, you know, and he's like listing off tailgating fatalities statistics to it's like 65,000 people died from tailgating last year. What I wrote for my note was I loved Robert Lucia's DMV driver safety training video on tailgating that now that was that was a great thing. I'll give you that. Yeah, that was really funny. So and then you meet Alice for the first time, beautiful introduction to the character. And I think obviously, that too, I like the slow motion, very bothered slow motion. It's very. It's very slow. It's very glamorous. And you've got that haunting cover of this magic moment by Lou Reed playing underneath it, underscoring the whole thing. And interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure it's just the side effect of the fluorescent light that was overhead and the shutters being cranked up but her face is strobing the light on her face and on the car is strobing as she enters it as she walks from the auto body shop and enter sircar Which to me felt like a lynchin signifier might have just been a happy accident. But I'm also inclined to believe that Lynch doesn't do anything by accident and he probably might have been on purpose you know what I will give you that David Lynch doesn't do things by accident. He's definitely intentional. Whatever he does, whatever that was, it was intentional. Alright, concur. I really liked that moment in that scene, but you skipped over what I think is one of the core scenes of the film and really I think highlights exactly what my my feelings towards it so obviously it's everything that he said it isn't. There's a scene where the radio is on and I forgot the other mechanic the guy he's in Twin Peaks, he's listening to music he really likes it. He's the frequent he's David Lynch's frequent collaborator jack Nance. This was actually his last cinematic appears jack Nance and he's listening to some music. Pete hates the song goes over another radio and changes it. Well, you're forgetting to mention that it's the song that Fred was playing in the club. didn't even notice. It was the exact same. Yeah, it was Fred sax solo anyway. Oh, I guess that's even more indicative. That's more representative of if that's representative of the film, then turning it off means turning off the film. So anyways, Pete turns off the song jack man says, What did you choose that for? I like that. Pete says what I think is the defining quote of this film. Well, I don't Yeah, in that scenario, I'm jack NATS and pod rebels out there. Okay, so rewind that, by the way. I will. I would think it was interesting is that you knew who Mr. Eddie was. You knew the name, but you didn't know that he was you don't know his declarant until Pete's dropped back off at the Auto Body Shop. And that's the last thing you hear in that scene is that that this guy, Robert loges character is actually declarant and I'm pretty sure that comes in at almost the exact midpoint without credits. Somebody might want to double check me on that. I want to fact check me but I think I remember it came in at around the like, 105 Mark, one minute, five, one hour five minute mark, well structured film, it's well structured to for how chaotic it is. And dick tries to give Pete a porno. Give me Give me a bone. I love that about his characters so much. He just he keeps a VHS of porn in his caddy. Just got thrown around to kids who give him favors and do good work on his car. But I think the the more baffling thing to me was he essentially had to explain to Pete what a porno did like it'll give you a boner. Like, oh, no shit. I did not. I didn't realize that's what pornos did I didn't I had no idea. I was watching for the story. Gee, Where's Mr. Lowe's you Thanks. But my mommy says I can't get though. Maybe that's what this movie is. It's just an extended porno. That's just a it's a real arthouse porno that realizes no one watches the porno sort of story and therefore don't really have one. There's probably collectively maybe three minutes of pornographic material in this film. Anything that might be qualified, classified as pornographic material. Even in the porn. It's not really porn. You don't even see stuff in the porn pocket. David David Lynch really tries to build your anticipation. So less than three minutes is all you need. So Alice shows Well, maybe for you. Alice shows back up she meets Pete they they they're off like a firecracker instantaneously attracted to her doesn't even know why. It's it's an otherworldly supernatural thing. Yeah. Well, it's, again, this I think it's an allegory. I don't think you need to take the events for being the the actual events. They're allegorical. Obviously, he falls in love. Even with his memory personality erased, he falls in love with her all over again, they hit it off. And at some point, Robert lotia, starts figuring things out. And he gets real upset about the possibility that somebody might be making out with his girl not doing anything else but making out Oh, he's real upset about it. He just shows up shows up to the Auto Body Shop Few days later, takes out his Desert Eagle in the middle of this busy auto body shop and says that he'd stick the gun so far up, the guy who had caught making out with his girls rectum, that it would come out his mouth, and then he pulled the trigger and blow his brains out. Which is a good threat. Here's no it's a terrible thing. But here's the thing. theoretically speaking, if Robert logia shoves a gun, shoves a gun up your ass, right to a point where it's going out your mouth, right? That's what he's already killed yet. Let me finish let me finish. He specifically says the gun is going pointing out your mouth, right? How if it's pointing out your mouth, look at me right now you're looking at me, right? It's pointing out your mouth. How how's the bullet gonna go up towards your brain? That's not how it works. That's not how it wasn't. The gun wouldn't be going out the mouth if he's blowing the brain up, because that's what he says. He says, I'm going to shove this gun so far up your ass. his ass. He does. His ads. It's not good pizza. You're missing the point of what I'm saying. I think I'm missing the point. Desert Eagle shout out somebody is a fun guy. I need to point that out. So he's, he says, I want to shove the gun so far up your ad that's gonna go up his ass that is going to go through his mouth. And then I'm going to pull the trigger and blow his brains out. If the gun the pistol theoretically, if Looney Tunes world exists in his mind, and you can shove a gun so far up a human's ass that's gonna go up through the person's mouth Hall, you pull that trigger, it ain't blowing their brains out. That's not that's not how it works. That's not just think about I think you're not thinking about the fact that to get the gun to that point to get the barrel of a gun to his mouth. He's gone through about three feet of organs and bone. As he's already killed him. He's already dead by the time that that barrel comes out between his teeth, and also he's gonna stick his arm really far. up there. This guy Robert Lowe's is notoriously long arms. He's got it. It's gonna be all covered an anus. You know? He's gonna get poop in there that that guy is gonna have poop all over. Do you think sorry I think about that one in think about that one. Yeah, you know, I didn't I didn't think about that. But I did already mentioned that he'd have organs and bone on it. So I think we can agree that by the time the barrel reaches the mouth guy's already dead. Also because the intestine and the trigger is just overkill because the intestines are like, you know, such a long tube. Is his arm going to have to go around, you know, the entirety inside the intestines, like a Looney Tunes, kind of like, you know, twist and like I said before, just straight out. lotia Robert Lucia has notoriously long limbs. I think he could do it. Okay. I mean, he's also deceased. So, yeah, I was about to say, oh, speaking. All right. Speaking of Robert lohja. I met him once. He really he filmed the movie in my hometown at the train station. And was it a documentary about how awful New Jersey is? No, but they were doing a walk and talk scene and he was reading off cue cards. That's what I remember. He's an older gentleman. Yeah. Yeah. seem to get pretty frustrated. Oh, yeah. No, I imagine he's he's a pretty short fuse. Yeah, I've never seen a movie without I've never seen him play a character in a movie that doesn't have a short You see, I'm like I've never seen this guy before. I don't know. I know he's an actor, but I've never heard of them. And then he appeared on an episode of Hawaii Five Oh my now I know. This is years and years ago. Okay, so like if the captain or something like that, because already convinces Alice to stop the lifestyle to leave Mr. Eddie, and she says okay, but if you want to do that, we're gonna need some money to get away. She tells him that he has to break into this guy Andy's house Andy, the host of the party from earlier on the story when our protagonist was just read not Fred Pete or as I like to say fried or pred How's that? So we say if you haven't brought it up, we're an hour and a half into recording is the first time you're bringing that up. I don't think that's something you like to say. I call bullshit. So he breaks in and just comically comically kills Andy there's a small struggle hits Andy in the face with a statuette Alice comes down the stairs behind she has been hooking up with this guy or was about to battle was always a little broken up about that. And as they're talking and he comes back to life belt as our dodges. He tries to attack belt Azhar or Pete or fried or pred whatever his Dave his belt is or have AIDS. And Andy just takes a running dive into the edge of a glass coffee table and gets his skull lodged on it. I just found that disturbing. I didn't find that funny. I'm like, Oh, God, I don't want to see this. I think it's so funny. It's it's funny in a very sardonic shocking way. It's so unexpected. I mean, there's there are a lot of deaths, a lot of horrifying images, things like that. And Lynch films. So it's kind of be expected. This was, I think, the first outstanding glaring instance in this film of that, but I think it's kind of funny every time I see it, it's horrifying. They show you in detail. They get like close ups of this glass lodged like five inches in this guy's skull. But anyways, he's dead. How'd you feel about that? You found it a little shocking. Shocking. I also want to point out that between what we last talked about in this scene, probably like 25 minutes goes by there's a long stretch of time. We're like I really it's the whole film, but particularly here, it's just like is going on. There's some family drama, we can't get into like every single little scene here because we'd be sitting on this. We really can't get into every little scene. Here's the thing. I can do that with your movies, because I actually know what's going on. But you can't do it for mine. Yeah, cuz who knows what's going so I'm just hitting all the main points that I know you can't misinterpret anyways. Andy dies, they will go out to the desert you have the point of how porcher shark that just uses them. Like hey, can you kill this guy for me? Thanks, buddy. Yeah, well, I think you're forgetting the point where they go out to the cabin in the desert. They show up. No one's there. And she's just says Well, I guess we got to wait. And then there's a two or three minute sex scene of them just rolling around in the on the desert floor in the headlights. Stark nude. Beautiful, beautiful moment. I don't remember the song that's playing over it. Do you remember? Did you look that up? Absolutely not. But it's a beautiful moment well composed, and it ends with Pete's character because he's still Pete at this point saying, I want you I have to have you or something like that. To which Alice responds, you'll never have me then smiles, wickedly, rises, buck naked, walks off into the cabin and disappears and she's gone for the rest of the movie. And then Pete stands up in the headlights and when he stands up, he's Fred again, as one does, I don't think that my theory is 100% correct. I don't think it's airtight. But if that doesn't bring Things full circle, if you don't understand at that point that there's this common desire between the two of them, there's a yearning that isn't going to be satisfied that they finally acknowledged that at that point that that overlap, there's a yearning. It's just a question of what that yearning represents you for you. It's film. for other people. It could be more specifically rooted in the character or it could be a million other things. It's not really isn't there's just there's not enough character there. Yeah, there's not really much character, which is why I think their character section of this there Yeah, no, I'm not going to say that the characters are super deep people, they have a few defining characteristics. Yeah, but there are a lot of voice you have there are a lot of spaces. What who is a deeper character, Fred, or Fred. Now there Fred being a Scooby Doo, Fred, I would still definitely say Fred from last highway. Ah, because at least he has an arc. He changes, he changes into a completely different person. Technically, whereas Fred from Scooby Doo is just static the whole time until the movie forgets about his character arc and decides he needs to kiss Daphne. Well, that's your interpretation. So things come full circle, Fred, Pete realized I can never have what they've always wanted. And that scene ends with Fred Bill Pullman going into the cabin and being greeted by the mystery man who chases him out with a video camera. And the last you see of him in that scene is footage on the video camera of his car pulling away peeling off into the night. Yeah, then you don't have any any any insights on my theory concerning that about what physically happened that what physically happens and what that implies allegorically Well, what did you say what you didn't say why they implied our Gorky or allegorically or blah, blah, blah, like I don't I feel like it's pretty patent that he chases him out with a video camera. Here's the thing like it's that the technique that he uses. This is a film that you can't you can't really argue No, Jani. That's not what this means. I just want you to have an opinion. But it doesn't seem like you have one. Yeah. Do you? Not that honestly, like throughout most of the movie, I didn't straight up hate it. I was just, but I wasn't bored by it either. I was just all right. This is happening. The scene is going on. All right. Okay. Sure. Okay, I think your interpretation of it is as valid as another person's I just it I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. You're a little vague. It's just I don't know. My voice. It's just an I don't know what to say. I really don't know peels off into that he's trying to escape the technology. And he thinks that okay, he can finally escape. He can finally escape with mystery. Why do you want me to say I don't want you to say anything. But now I guess I have to just end it because we're at the end of the movie anyway. So I'm going to say my schpeel and then I guess we'll be done with the writing part peels off into the night trying to escape the mystery man who's chasing him with a with a digital camera, he goes off to the last highway hotel where Robert Lowe's is staying having an affair the night before or the night of see this is where the timelines get a little murky because your belt Azhar but you're also belt is are turned into Fred, who was Fred the whole time. So what I think is that the part where declarent is actually killed happens the night before the events of the film start. So he goes finds declarant at the Lost Highway hotel where he's having an affair with his wife, Renee, who's not Alice. Now it's definitely Renee because she's got the red hair. And he abduction puts him in the trunk of his car takes him out to the middle of the desert. And then the mystery man shows up with his like little portable television hands. It's Robert lotia shows him proof that Fred knows that he was hooking up with his wife. And then Fred kills him. Ultimately, I think that you got to also add, he slits his throat, slit his throat, and shoots him. That's the other thing. But he tries to he kills he kills him. And he thinks that hold on, hold on, sorry, you better be sorry, this movie. And he thinks that I think what that stands for is that not necessarily Lynch, but in the sense anyone trying to change the outcome of their lives or change the outcome of something that's already transpired, something that's already happened can try to wipe out the ruining influence. But at the end of the day, it doesn't actually change all that much. In the case of this story, it just sends him back to the beginning back to the same Lost Highway, that same road, that inaccessible road that exists but can never be gotten to ironically that they were writing at the very start of the film. And if you don't believe that there's a possibility that Fred and Pete just Stanford different iterations of Lynch in his journey as a filmmaker when he goes into the cabin after he's after Pete has transformed into Fred and he greets the mystery man, and they're one of the things that mystery man says Do you remember it? It's like a denial or something like you're not. It's not you're not here. It's like he says who he is or something is like no you're not or something like that. Right? Yeah, he's he asked, like, what the guy's name is and the mystery man responds, and your name What the fuck is your name before he chases him out? Because Fred news who Fred is Pete wouldn't know who Pete is necessarily. But Fred definitely is because Fred's himself at that moment. So it's almost as if not that the mystery man is asking the character, but he's asking the audience to start questioning realistically who Fred Pete pead freet Health is already getting a Bill Pullman actually are I think that's the point where the movie really reveals that it is an allegory for something else. If you watch him you think, Okay, this is just a series of events, some guy chain morphs into another person. Once you hit this point, I think it's undeniable that I there's something else going on here. I don't think if you got that far in the film, and it was like, man, it was really fucking straightforward until that point, man. Now it's an allegory. Everything before man, no, no, sorry. By now. Yeah, allegory, my friend. Now I think if you were ticked off, you definitely should take ticked off, you were definitely ticked off. If you weren't tipped off. By that point, you definitely are now you should be Listen, and we're an allegory for something. My god, I don't know what the fuck is doing. I mean, granted, I still don't know what the fuck he's doing. But you know, it's clearly representative of something. As a film watcher, I am fine with being able to interpret things. But I don't want that to be the main almost reason for a film to exist, because that's what it almost feels like. And that's most of what we're talking about is what this film represents symbolically. And as an allegory, where I want more from my movie I want I really, really, really want character. I find it extremely difficult to watch a movie that doesn't have strong characters. And if you can do things in addition to that, sure, great, but if Okay, yeah, you want a movie that has strong characters, but you love Scooby Doo. I think those are good characters. Those are Oh my god. I like those characters. They are not characters. They are characters you can say that you don't like shadows of characters. They're definitely the characters that were created in the 60s but they're shadows of of actual like human beings you can say they're childish you can say they are they don't really even realize they have emotions you can say they're not read definitely doesn't have emotion does have emotions after they they're not as fully realized as a more nuanced kind of film. But I think you can't say it doesn't have characters, but it doesn't have a character to you said before. And this discussion that the characters, right like these characters, they're not really not the focus, they're more so not focus, or David Lynch. That's what you've been arguing this whole time. But at the same time, that being said, That being said, what I say because usually I can steamroll over you too, that's what you do. What I'm saying is that if that is the main focus, or the main kind of goal with the characters is I is more so representative of something else, then I find it hard to engage with, I understand why it's there. I'm not going to argue it's there or not there. Because really, it can or can't be it. You can turn it however you want. I think me trying to argue with you about what this movie means or doesn't mean is a fruitless and pointless discussion. Because a you obviously know a lot more than me Be it can be anything and see like I in film school, I was never big on film analysis. It always drove me through the roof. I hated it so much. Because yes, sometimes a red cup does symbolize something and sometimes it was just the fucking cup that they found that they had. So it can be either or now this film, yeah, there's a lot of interpretation we had intentionally for sure, but I just don't it's a lot more than just a solo cup, though. I'm not saying I'm I'm saying as an example of film analysis in general, yes, there's more than just the example I gave you, which is a random piece of set decor that someone is looking into way too much for no reason. Now, there is a lot going on here guys intentionally. So whatever that intention is, is up to the viewer. Now that all being said, like if you just broke down the story for the story that I mean, there's just not a ton going on and as far as the characters are concerned, I I mean, I guess there is I don't know, I don't even know I don't even I don't even know if I agree with you. It's thinking about it right now with the ark and the growth. Oh, it like, Is it a question? Is it is there growth and change on Fred's part? And I don't even entirely No, I mean, if anything, it's more so it seems his desire to be closer to someone else, whether whatever that someone else represents, and finally getting that fulfillment that he didn't have before, but then it all falling apart, but that, I don't know. I just don't because he's not very emotive as a character. And there's Yeah, there's a lot held back. There's not a lot that I don't know. I'm, yeah, I'm struggling to find the words because it's just it's a film that very much makes me struggle with how I couldn't even talk about it. I don't know. I really don't know it. For me. It doesn't seem like you when you when you talk about it like that. I can semi see it more than the folks and cold war that I straight up disagree with you. But I can semi see it. But I also mostly don't see it. I mostly I see the interpretation. But I don't see the character, if that makes sense. Well, we can talk about character after we talked about, we talked about plot, in fact, we've been droning on moving on to directing no matter how you feel about this, I feel like you can't avoid the fact that Lynch especially at this point in time in his career had really hit his stride, if you think that his dialogues a little choppy. And if you think that his direction might be a little weird, or the characters are idiosyncratic and are therefore giving kind of obscure idiosyncratic direction, that's fine. But he knows what he's making. I think from start to finish, he knows all the steps and precautions he has to take to arrive at the piece that he has visualized in his mind. So it's consistent. I think he's a very consistent director. And I think he's able to transmit his imagination to the screen very fluidly. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree that he knows what he's doing what he's, he knows what he wants to achieve. And he is achieving that. That being said, part of David's knowledge. And this is coming from a guy who is not a fan of his and hasn't seen a lot of his work. So I'm sure a lot of you folks are gonna disagree with me here. And that's just fine. But it's just like the weirdness. It never was jarring. It was just it was never, it was never really like baffling. It just was and I'm just like, Okay, that was going on. Sure, why not? But as opposed to say, Twin Peaks, the was the awakening the arrival, whatever, the return twin, as opposed to Twin Peaks the return or I didn't watch the whole thing. But there were definitely times in some of those episodes where I'm like, Holy fuck, man, this guy is on a whole other level. So I know, there's about 20 years of difference. He's definitely he definitely evolved a lot and grew to that. But it was more measured. I think it was it was not as it was out there. But not as out there as i think i think warranted style that makes sense war. It's not as out there as Twin Peaks the return and so like, like something I was thinking about is, and I guess you could argue this a little but would you say that he's the he likes to experiment with things? Yeah, I would say he's an experimental filmmaker. And the reason why I bring that up is because like, on one hand, you can say he's experimental buttons. And I'm talking about how you're choosing to kind of go about your process and everything because at the same time, you can be experimental but also be like, Listen, I'm doing this exactly my way precision to a tee. So on one hand, he's like David Fincher in that regard, you know, we're he's like we're getting exactly how I want to this is exactly how it's in my head. I don't know if it's going to work but we're going to try it. Yes. I'd like to see if it does like going off of that and like I'm glad you said that like specifically that thought process you know who I really liked for that kind of stuff. Steven Soderbergh who is able to experiment do weird shit and he's always kind of what you don't like you know, like, I want I'm not a crazy big fan of Soderbergh. I haven't seen a lot of his stuff, but to say that it's a completely different type of experimentation. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, I he does an experiment narratively visually, in editing, sound design. Yeah, sure. I'd say he does experiment a little more, but to compare the two is a little difficult. He does is he just got a like, for example, lightning or something like that. Just not to the degree that David Lynch does, I think, yeah, there are varying strata yeah of experimentation and Soderbergh's middle But I think David Lynch has probably like a higher tier not higher meaning and quality but he experimented a little more abstractly. Yeah, I'll go with that. So it's just like I, as far as David Lynch's talents are concerned, good film for him. He's definitely perfected and gotten better with his style from what I have seen of his, but it's definitely a it definitely seems between, you know, Twin Peaks, which I knowledge was on network TV, so there's only so much he could do. But between that and this, you see the evolution and the growth of him as a filmmaker, you want to say something? I think I said he started to hit his stride. I said that earlier. I think he started to hit his stride. He wasn't in full stride yet. And I think full stride was in terms of translating the in terms of manifesting his thoughts into actual creations. I think he started to hit a stride in the late 90s. And then really started to express himself most fully in the 1000s. And now in the teens. But comparatively, yeah, a lot of his work and I find it's 2020 comparatively, I think a lot of his work in the 90s outside of Twin Peaks fire walk with me was a little tame because you had Wild at Heart. You had straight story and you had this last highway. Also Elephant Man was really not this. No, that was a very different film. Anything else you want to say about directing? I would like to say that I think it's closest if we're going to talk about other Lynch films that I could compare it to comparably in directorial style. I'd say it's closest its closest relative is Eraserhead like I stated before I think it's a very personal I think it's more personal story for Lynch like Eraserhead was an eraserheads case. It had to do with parental responsibility and fear of failure as a parent this had to do with more with career and passion for art and creation. If you're gonna watch to Lynch films back to back I'd say what would you have these two would make fine accompanying pieces. What now? What would jack do? That's the only one you need? It's really 17 minutes. And gold. It is it's really good. I think you like it for reasons I you like it. I like ironically than I like it. Yeah, now, but I think there we could talk about we could do like a little mini we could do a little nugget on what did jack do because I have a lot to Lawd about that little 17 minute short film. Well, because you have a lot a lot about that film. We are never doing that. Fuck that. No. Can we skip over? I mean, let's just quickly talk about cinematography because we are really going over Yeah, cinematography cinematography is you know, I've never seen a Lynch film that I thought had poor cinematography. And the most recent work he got a little lacks with it images started to look a lot flatter. But I think you'd notice around time on Mulholland Drive, and mostly everything in the 90s and early 2000s, there was a lot of depth to his images still, at that point. Visually, I think this looks a lot like blue velvet moreso than Twin Peaks or firewalk. With me great use of light, great use of obviously, you had those lynchin tropes flashing lights as use of slow motion and more dramatic moments, but visually very stimulating filmmaker, I have nothing bad to say about the cinematography. I don't Yeah, you don't want I don't remember who the cinematographer was, but did a great job. Yeah, no, I thought the cinematography was really good too. I mean, like particularly, I really liked all the scenes in the prison. I thought what really great. Oh, the lighting was fantastic. That that I really noticed. Yeah. And like it's funny you say that because I definitely when I've blogged in my mind, although some photography is really good. I was thinking mostly about lighting, you know, more so than any framing or anything else is mostly about the lighting. So yeah, he never he never over does it with the lighting. A lot of times you'll just see single light sources are seen but you know, except the strobe thing. I like that. I like that he has a trademark of lighting trademark. You don't see that with a lot of filmmakers and curtains. That red curtain has a lighting trademark JJ Abrams lens. No, that's a lens flare. That's that's post that's post production. It's not captured camera. Most of the time. I think definitely some of that was captured in camera some of it but I don't think most I don't think all of it I would not look at Yeah, all 100% that stuff. We're gonna say lighting hallmark of a director. Yes. Yeah, but that's a negative quality for JJ Abrams. When people talk about that they do not speak about it. When it's a positive. They usually disparage it. I like this thing that lynched okay. Okay, I like that. He always does it. editing. Same thing. Yeah, very little to say that wasn't great about editing one thing, let's say your bit, so I'm gonna say yeah, how long was this? Two hours, 14 minutes i think i think it could last two hours. Okay. Well Mary Sweeney was the editor on this one and I think she was the best editor Lynch has worked with my opinion. Pretty sure she worked on Twin Peaks fire walk with me Mulholland Drive. I think she was also the editor on I don't think they've worked together in the last few years. But definitely some of Lynch's strongest editing work was done by her a lot of lingering and I like that I really appreciate that a lot of lingering on shots instead of cutting on action feel like it really builds tension in moments you wouldn't otherwise think we're there. I will give it that it was lingering, but it didn't then often didn't overstay its welcome. I guess if that makes sense. You don't go like oh, this shot is too long. You know, a pauses were definitely too fucking long. Let me tell you that. But besides that, like most of the action was okay. You know, I'm following this. Okay. I think that's that's cinematography and editing. Moving on to characters characters. Oh, my God. Time to shine. Oh, except not very long, because so we're getting tired. We're getting back, folks. I told you this was coming back ranking my Henry Rollins his performances. Because that's the I was at that point in the movie where I knew Henry Rollins was going to be and I see him and I go, well, Henry Rollins, good on here. How do you even know who Henry Rollins is? I would not peg you for a black flag fan. I didn't say I'm a black flag, man. I didn't know you know, how do you know who he is? Because you want to know how I know who he is. I asked you the question because of his number one film badboys too. Because also his number two film heat and then the heat or he Michael Mann's Michael Mann's heat, Al Pacino tackles him. That was a great scene. I want to give it number one, but you can't be bad boys too. After that was his performance Legend of Korra. The animated TV show. Okay, yeah. Then then underneath that jackass, then this last highway? Well, he's been in more than six movies. So six has been in more than six films TV shows. So I guess that's kind of a compliment. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Take every everything else. He's done even any commercials and just put that before the last one. Henry Rollins doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would do commercials. I don't know if he did or didn't. But I'm saying hypothetically, if those are those exists out there, put an ad above so yeah, not a lot of attention. Not it's not that a lot of attention isn't paid to character in this film. But I think because a lot of the characters in the film I sent this is my theory again. Our allegorical character isn't stressed as the most important elements of the film. That being said, I think that they definitely have defining characteristics. Patricia are cats characters, Renee and Alice. She's got Yeah, yeah, she she is nude a lot. And my goodness was Patricia Arquette attractive in the 90s. She's still good looking now, but 90s Patricia Arquette just a fascinatingly impossibly beautiful woman, but I will say isn't much of our care. Renee will say her wigs word. I'm trying to get through this, you steamroll over me every time. I'm not gonna let you do it anymore. Not again. We're already we're already at two hours. Her wigs suck. Her wigs are terrible. They look terrible on her. It's just like you made a beautiful woman look black with that hair. Both of them. I think she looked fine with the wigs. I didn't really care about it. Renee isn't much of a character beyond her alcoholism and detachment. But I think that's a functional restriction that prevents her from overshadowing Alice who is essentially the same character but with but I'd say retrograded she's not quite as distorted as Renee has become at the start of the film. Bill Pullman's good, I think he's good. But again, like I said, I think he's just playing a call McLaughlin type at the end of the day there, no matter what you want to call him, it's a Lynch stand. And I think he's got a definite arc that he starts as an impotent character, emasculated, struggling, frustrated. And at the end of the day, his looks a curve of his character arc isn't a good one. It's a he he arrives at a much lower place than he had started. But I think I think that's a part of the theme. I think that's a big part of that theme of fatalism that the more you try to fight fate, the more you try to fight the inevitable, the harder you find it is to exist, and so he can't even exist as it himself. He has to jump into another personality. That's where I think the film leaves off with Robert loges character Mr. Eddie, he's, like I said, basically inspired by a lotia outburst. His introduction is hilarious. I love that he keeps porno tapes in his caddy. I really liked watching him die because he wasn't a great person. And also jack Nance was too beautiful for this world. And I miss him. Robert lohja was probably my favorite character in the film I disagree with that is the most defined I felt like a wall though. You know, I conversations. I know. It's like I'm very much in dialogue person. So to have a lack of that lesson in the film is what exactly what I wanted to be for better or for worse. It's just not something I particularly care for. You know, I just will I wish you felt more. I wish you were angry. Are you just so what do you want me to be angry? I don't know. I just went out when we say hate hate is a powerful word. It's like you have to hate this movie. And you're trying to trying to say hi, man. It's just not for me. I don't think that's what this podcast is about. I fucking hate. I hate you hate a Cold War, but you weren't enthusiastic about hating it. I want you you have to be enthusiastic about hating this movie. I'm so fucking tired. Oh, you're tired. It's 110 here. It's 110 where I am right now. I mean, I can't be tired. I'm just saying I might be a little more tired. Here's the problem. I'm not saying you shouldn't back off on any way. But if I come in start saying, Man, I really fucking hated this and that and that. You're gonna just make a counter argument. That's gonna be Oh, well, I like it. Because it isn't that it says like I can't I disagree that those things aren't there because it's a film that you know who the fuck? What the fuck is this thing? It's just some shit. That's just like, it's like a fucking Pollock just I'm throwing paint at the fucking canvas. And yeah, I guess it's there. I guess it exists. That doesn't necessarily make it beautiful. or whatever it is. You're saying? It also doesn't mean it's not that thing. I don't fucking know. And I don't really care. Because you don't want I don't want to look at a fucking Pollock. You want i want i want i want to look at something more beautiful. I want something that really speaks to my soul. Not like Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm, I'm whatever the fuck that is, is I mean, it's just it doesn't speak to me it that I need I will when I want something I want to connect the characters. I mean, I want to like I just watched the wire. It was a fantastic, wonderful show. But you know what, why it really connects with me more so than anything else is the characters. I mean, even David Simon and other people were talking like you can express your ideas in whatever film or TV or whatever meeting you're trying to do. But if you don't do it in a way that has characters that the audience can latch on to that can sympathize with feel something for then whatever message you're trying to get across, whether it is something that is in the case of that show very real very, like difficult problems to address, or in the case of this film, David Lynch's the in your interpretation of it, David Lynch's frustrations with what is becoming of film and technology and all that kind of stuff, and one to go back or whatever, like those things can still be there. But don't I think the thing that you cannot remove is character, however weird or wherever, whatever you do, to remove character is such a disservice to whatever story you're telling you can be whatever story like I don't need you to have humor. I know it's not a film, but a TV show that I also really love is Westworld. That's a show that has almost no humor whatsoever. I can't remember a funny scene but and this show is very much driven by the questions and ask is about the thoughts about the themes that characters fall into those ideas, but they very much propel those ideas. They're representative of them, but those characters are very much fully fleshed out characters in this film, as you even admit doesn't really have fully fleshed out characters. They are there to represent something else I just check out whenever that happens in the fell I it's not that I'm not paying attention. For the most part. I was watching it, but I was not invested in it. I was not interested. I was not curious like this film did not. It's like that quote from Django Unchained first you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. It did not have my curiosity, so it never really had my attention. And it didn't have that because a didn't really have those characters and everything has those characters at least be like I guess because this can happen sometimes I watch a movie or something that's just so fucking weird and batshit a can't help but walk away. This is not even that this is still like it's weird, but it's not so bad shit. I'm just like, what the fuck? I'm just like, okay, shrug. This is weird. That's what I got from it. And you can you can put on whatever themes, whatever interpretation you put on that can add appreciation for the film, but I don't think it makes it more engaging. schpeel rant There you go. That's That's what I was looking for, you'll need to cut it down. But for the love of God, that's what you need. And you can use that in multiple parts in this whole thing. But you just you have to sound enthusiastic about how you feel about this. If we're going to do it. You want me to just cut take that section and just that's the whole No, you you have to have me in there too. But yeah, so what I'm trying to say no, you already said it. You already did your point. The thing I was looking forward to the most was Henry Rollins, and I got what I wanted there. So that was your favorite scene. Moving on to fantasy characters moments. There's two scenes. I liked those scenes I mentioned before Robert loges DMV video and the slow motion Walk of Patricia Arquette, those are it? Yeah, that's respectable, respectable choice. I really enjoyed. Oh, and I had to I need to clarify, in case you think I'm a sexist pig or something I specifically talking about her second character introduction. Not the not her first slowmotion See? Yeah, the one where you're seeing her and Bill Pullman in bed. Yeah, no, I'm talking about when you see her as the blonde and she's walking is Alice not yet a song and everything that I thought was very well done. Well shot beautiful. Yeah, respectable choices. I definitely really like the first time we see the videotape being played. I really like the party scene where he meets the mystery man says that's fucking crazy, man. I really like fucking crazy. That night. I really liked the night that Renee is killed. I really like the transformation scene and the jail. I mean, I'm just going like through going through chronologically. There are a lot of scenes that like I really liked this movie. Obviously I chose it not just because I think you're not just because I thought you'd think it was weird or hard to understand, or confusing or frustrating. I genuinely really liked the film. I don't think it's an issue that the characters weren't the biggest part of the most important element of the film. I don't think they're really the most necessarily the most important element of A Lynch film, you can get into that debate of if characters are always absolutely necessary depending on the style and the type of film being made. I would certainly contradict the argument that I'm making right now in other cases with other filmmakers and other films, but I think this is a fine film. I think it stands well on its own I think it has an intriguing message I think it has a lot of rewatch ability potential and I stand by my original rating of an eight at the very start. Great way to segue into your rating Shawn, which is my writing is never going to rewatch this shit again. I'll give it 4.5 out of 10 because I can't decide whether I'm going to get a four or a five those be 4.5 hold on hold on you you're raising this possibly higher that once upon a time in the West Wait What did I get once upon a time in the West you rated once upon a time in the West? oh four. Yeah, but mind boggling okay. No fine you know No, yeah, by it. I you know, I stand by it. Because once upon a time in the West, I actually legitimately hate when I think about it. It just inspires that kind of frustration in me. This is more so like, you know, I knew what I was getting shrug. That's the difference. Okay, yeah, fine. Well, I think that's about all the time we have for this episode. God accepting one final part. Your next choice, Shawn, what are we gonna watch next week? Well, Jani are 10 Well, Jani you already know the movie for next week. Because here's what happened before this film was picked. Jani said okay, we're gonna watch last highway. You're going to have to get stars for a week and watch it through there. And I said, Hold up, motherfucker. If we're getting stars. Then we're both doing back to back stars. You're going to get a movie on stars. I'm going to get a movie on stars. So I went through all the movies on stars. And I was trying to figure out what is the movie that Jani would want to watch the least that I really love? Now movies that I could have gone with that I really love are Moneyball the gray, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I like all of these the movie that I went with while Jani Do you want to say what the movie is saying go in cash. We're doing Tango and cash pitch Tango and cash. Right after I watched last highway, I started watching Tango and cash and really felt better is great. I didn't finish it. I only got a couple minutes and I'm like, okay, I just need to get this out. You know, yeah, well, you know, some people some people start working out and some people's start drinking Schlitz To each their own. Well, Jani. It's been a been a miserable time. This it's been equally miserable for me too. I do not look forward to this, but I'm here. Don't have Anything else better to do? Yeah, cool. All right, well, fuck off. Go find yourself