Ep 36: F**k The Four Feathers!

Hello this is Sean and welcome to fuck your opinion a movie review podcast before we get started please make sure to like follow subscribe, write a review of this podcast wherever you are listening right now and please be sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram all those are linked in the description. Enjoy the Episode Hello and welcome to fuck your opinion. This is a movie review podcast with yours truly Sean and my racist co host Jani Jani. How you doing today? Hi, this is Jani Ponte Scotto. I am Sean's racist co host. And in case you're wondering which race I dislike, it's those whites. You can't trust them not a single thing they do. They're always up to something. So anytime you're definitely up to something, you know, definitely don't realize that in a world that's not actually Did you do any research on why the British were in the Sudan? I hope you did a little bit. I did a lot because it wasn't because the wasn't because the British were invading. It's because the Egyptians who took over the Sudan were broke and needed help finishing the Suez Canal. And so basically like, Hey, y'all can have the Sudan. What's how it happened? We'll talk about it, folks. Anyways, we watch movies on this show. We watch movies, but here's the here's the gist of it. Jani and I have very different tastes. And we pick a movie that we know the other one is going to despise that they're going yeah, hey, I love Bobby Warner. Sean loves British independent films. You know, that's how it works. I just I can't get enough of people dancing. And that's pretty much it. Yeah, I just love people with with, you know, various physical deformities. shaking their thing. I mean, that's basically what happened in this movie. You know, kind of Yeah, well, he does. He doesn't dance but she does have himself to formed kind of well, in a way Yeah, but also you remember I don't want to get into too much actually had his tongue cut out but there's he clearly doesn't but he there was this one bit where the the guy and we're going to talk so much about this later. So I know I'm shirking off some things but where this guy is throwing stones at the captives? I don't know if you remember this. He's thrown stones, any shaking and such an offensive kind of like trying to play someone mentally handicapped kind of way. I don't know if you're, it's like, no, I remember. It's just not it's not as big of a deal as Sean's making it out to be that part is not as big of a deal. Sure. I don't know there's a lot of this that I really think you're just kind of blowing out of proportion. From what from sounds like your outline. We're gonna we're gonna get into it. Anyways. Yani what movie did you pick for us today? I today? I picked the I picked the night. Oh, sorry. I just I told him ahead of time. Not to do any of this. I told him this is annoys me so much to edit out. Folks, you even know that he's doing all these coughs and shit because I cut it all out. But now he's, you have to leave those leaving the dock and I guess it's an inside joke for literally only myself because I'm the only one who edits edits it. So so I'm gonna leave all Johnny's disgusting noises in this episode doing you know how he actually sounds? Go ahead, see if I can see if all listen. So let's get to this. So today we watched the 1939 version of the four feathers by directors old Tom Korda. They were actually they based on I think it's a night or 1902 novel by hw Mason and it was actually adapted a number of times. I think it was adapted twice before this, and a couple of times after that most recent Well, I don't know if it's even most recently, but I know there was a Heath Ledger adaptation in like 2002 that was I watched that all right afterwards, you did this guy for research for research, so I can talk why you should Why does that even matter? You should have watched you should have read the book if anything, because he's not I wasn't for the book. I have worked today. Do you think that in the like, four hours. I was gonna read a hope I was gonna buy this or walk and read entirety? No. I wanted to have The as I say the book on tape, the book is 11 hours. I looked it up. Yeah, you have a lot. You had 11 hours yesterday. You could have you call I'm sorry, I want you to listen to it while you were working. You could have done it while you were working use it. You told me your job is just a lot of data entry anyways is actually Okay, I don't want to get into that right now. But I actually have to I'll try and listen to a podcast when I work. But a lot of it can be quite nuanced and I'm like, okay, I had to stop listening to this. So I can focus so No, I didn't have time to read listen to the stupid fucking book that is clearly outdated but whatever the point, yeah, outdated. Okay. What's the point? I'm waiting the point and Johnny. I was trying for the past I wanted this 10 episodes. So episodes 31 till 40 to be all heist centric. And we were still kind of this is kind of a no it's kind of hee hee hee camouflage. Okay, well flow. I want to state how to reverse heist but Okay, my heater breaks in, breaks in and then breaks he steals all the captives out. From under. That's not what I'm talking about. Yo, here's why I got out. Shut up and take my stupid movie. Why do you? Why did you decide to double down in your racism? After making racist comments about Cato saying I love Cato. I want Cato like Danny. Hey, hold on. No, no, no, I want to say that myself. This is Jani. ponza Scotto The time is 9:51pm on Wednesday, March 17. And I love Cato from the original Pink Panther film series. And I want him to be my father not my daddy as Sean is misquoting but I wish Cato was my father because then I would be quite skilled at kung fu i think i think that's what they were doing i'm sure and then as Jani said you know as much as I love Kato What else did like AdWords direct? Oh, he tracked he directed Breakfast at Tiffany's. Well also how can you not decide to go for Mickey Rooney this movie? Oh, Okay, got it attached. Oh boy. You don't know what the Send golly Are you don't know you don't know for sure. They could be like the Berbers Why did you pick this Viviani because they were fictional. Anyways, I watched it probably I don't know, man. It was eight, nine years ago. And the first time I watched it, I really hadn't seen something like it or anyways, I hadn't seen what how film that was. Were you like five years old? No. Oh, haha. No, I was probably around 20 or 19? I don't remember the exact year that I watched it. I just know that I did. probably read problems. Okay, got it. So I was adult enough to know that contextually, there are some things that don't jive with what we consider politically correct. At this point. Yes, I was aware of that. Okay, so knowing that I was able to enjoy it. Keeping that in mind, obviously. But I tune in as members see at Birth of a Nation folks, actually, I really do want to pick that I would love to pick that shot, bring it on. I've never seen something that was predicated on I've never seen a film that was predicated on such an obscure elements of British like turn of the century society Do you know you eventually learn what the title means the the, the meaning of the title before feathers is that back in the late 1800s, early 19 hundred's men were men who did not enlist in the army were shamed by other members of society. And in particular women too, into joining by being handed white feathers, because a white feather at that time was a symbol of cowardice. So anyone who received a white feather was essentially just being called a coward. I got enough to make a pillow and that it's such an obscure a small detail. That was bigger. That was, you know, that was something that was just kind of like commonplace knowledge 100 years ago, and now the meaning was totally lost. I mean, Shawn, actually texted me, I think while he was starting at the beginning of the film, and he was he just had no idea what the meaning of the forefathers were eventually to film it in the beginning. Well, let's see looking at that point. 1939 pre World War Two people still, you know, it still would have been in the public knowledge it would it would have been in the public arena of information it would have just at most people would have known it, which is why I think they are going to address it and I'm like, We're gonna address it saw it anyways, that all of his friends were calling him a coward. And instead of just like taking it, he goes on this big, big adventure. I guess technically it goes through them this big adventure through this historical war. I think it's the modest war. I don't know how to pronounce it. But there's very real historical event to at first try to deliver these feathers to his fellow soldiers. But when he discovers that they're captured right now, you might as well I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah. We hear it's why I love every you know, writing summary. At the time I was younger, I haven't seen anything quite like it at the time really enjoyed it. Nearly a decade had passed. I hadn't seen it. And I thought, Okay, well, Sean really loves indian films, or Bollywood films, whatever he wants to call them. And this is an app just going to this is set in Northern Africa by the way, which is a very different thing when But anyways, yeah, this is different than India. I really just wanted to mess with Sean but at the same time, I said it's different from Africa. I just wanted to mess with Sean so I picked this because British colonialism and India famous famously was a colony for the longest time. So rating, I would give this one probably about probably two No, no, no, no, no. 3.5 of ridic brush Sean's thumbs and and then an additional like, out of how many smaller smaller of out of five Riddick rashaan stumps 3.5. Others hold on in those smiling ratings. On those Riddick rose Sean's thumbs. There are at an additional four Riddick row, Shawn thumbs, smaller ones. So that's 3.5 Riddick rashaan thumbs with an additional smaller fourth Riddick. Riddick Rochelle and thumbs growing up normally. It translates to a 7.8 I gave it a 7.8 if you don't use it, you said we couldn't do decimals so I have to I had to come up with a creative way around it. I have to improvise to use the feathers. There's literally a number in the title a number on Mount of feathers. You could have said you know how many Barb's are on feathers. Sean hundreds, no. One for One feather is the one How am I supposed? And that the Oh, how many arms on the feathers? Are you that? You could be Yeah, what the arms are the barbs and there are hundreds of them. You can't count the number of Barb's Yeah. But if you've got these with ridic rows, you know how many there are? It's not a hypothetical. You know how many there are? Well, I do what is right. All right, folks, in case you're wondering, this is a call back to last week's episode with Doom two because the lead character played by Redick where Sean he has two thumbs on one hand, and it's quite alarming when you first noticed that he likes to mock our wonderful boy. Where'd it go? Sean, who I deeply adore, I deeply love but he Jani likes to just mock the man Sean sent me a picture of him from his Instagram. And he he framed out the phone. Well, the thing is he did the director. What's more alarming is he did the director pose where you straight up, have your hands out, you know, like the whole point of the director pose is I have my hands out like trying to do a box you know, like, hey, look at my hands. So you generally prominently feature the hands so it's really apparent when you cut out when you crop out. He's a little insecure about the thumb at this point. I feel bad now. Yeah, he's still so handsome. He's like in his late 40s. And he looks better than either of us. He's stronger than either of us. You've definitely Oh, come on. He's more he I mean in person. He's probably your eyes. Let's be real. I think he's taller than me. look him up right now. Okay, if he is taller than Shahrukh Khan, he's got to be taller than Shahrukh nice. I think so. Okay, anyways, Rita Crowe. Sean. Hi. While Jani is looking that up, I'm gonna give him my opposer a plot summary. So the okay. Five 511. So he's taller than me. So the person who did not choose the film, The disinterested party does a funny Plot summary. Unfortunately, Jani kind of ruined this all for me. So I'm sorry folks that Jani kind of killed the joke, but here it goes. In order to prove he's not a sniveling little Coward. One upper class white man has the courage to put on brown face and do an utterly unconvincing and straight up racist caricature of a Sudanese man all in the service of doing the bravest thing imaginable giving his best friends a couple of feathers back yes this is a movie about a man returning some feathers also to know his feather delivery takes him about three to six years so you don't want him as an Amazon delivery driver that's funny because the Amazon is one is a river is a river that they is as a is a river in Africa and it's a setting in the movie they go to one of the cities on the Amazon which is an isn't is in this movie and is also is also owning is going to own us all in five years. What's your fucking Plot summary? I just I already gave it I'm not doing it again. I gave everyone the gist okay guys guys disgrace because he backs out of the army when they leave the fucking ruin. Okay, so what's what's the next thing you should it? Oh, well, I believe, I believe Sean capitalizes on his white privilege to recount the yogi green tea quote of the day. You bet I do. So folks, I do my yoga green tea quote, just to kind of start us off in a peaceful mood. Kind of just relax, but it's not gonna last never lasts. Never last sight in that a yoke. It just enrages me most of the time. So yeah, that's also why I do it. Like, ironically set the mood but really is to just jab at you. Just I want to just make a quick note, folks, usually I am drinking like coffee or tea in order to get me a little more, you know, excited, I guess but also some alcohol to make me looser. I'm not drinking alcohol today. It's the first in quite a bit just because this discussion is going to be so fucking heated. This is going to be rough and I need to be at my best wits. So this is gonna be a tough one. Now go to the actual Yogi green tea quote. Blimey, he's trying to rob him. Sorry, that's not the quote. That's a quote from the movie. The actual Yogi green tea quoted. It's not life that matters. It's the courage that we bring to it. noogie green tea Co. Alright, Jani. He said sipping from his Lilo and Stitch mug at prom with the Lilo and Stitch mug. Oh, no, no. I mean, you're you're you're a 15 year old girl right? I am. I can't like Lilo and Stitch no you can you can I like Lilo and Stitch but you don't see like any merchandise here. Here's the thing. Jani Lilo and Stitch is one of those movies that I love so much that I can't possibly pick because if you shit on it, I would like straight up murder you I would be so angry. It was it was the last good Disney movie that was it. Everything else after matches. So don't shit on Lilo and Stitch What if the plane had flown through Honolulu though, instead of the mountain? Yes. The third act had problems. Yeah, so you know on you know, you know, you mocked me. Here's the thing you mock me for my Lilo and Stitch mug. But Yani read to me what the mug says. Can you see that? No, pull it down. It says where's the beef? That's what it does not say that. It says brev What is brev says brave. And then what's that? Was it say here? It's Roy sided. Just brave and loyal fucking moron. Which is I only bring that up because if you're gonna mock me that actually so appropriate for this movie. So you know shit on your face? Fuck you. Also, you're such a funny guy and you know that before we get into it you're a politically by the way before we go anywhere. What does that mean? Like if you're politically I'm I'm no I'm not jumbo jumbo. What am I I am character. Bubbles. I'm Cobra. Oh, I'm saying names of characters from Lilo and Stitch right now. And you don't even recognize the Mr. Oh, rude stitch. I have terrible recall things. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. All right. That's right, folks. You heard it from please the one ideally All right. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm a blank slate. I'll admit that. Yeah. cross dressing is only a few years away. Anyways. I feel like I don't have to explain that I was gonna make. I feel like everyone knows that plink. Lee frequently wore women's clothing in that in that film. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I think I was reading somewhere that they were supposed to be gay and Disney edited that out. But jumbo jumbo was supposed to be In a relationship Oh, I don't know, I would have been weird. I don't remember that. I don't remember that. So you don't like that. But you think what happens in this movie is not weird that this is i don't i don't think Johnny, what what? First, like what's your first like, first like, I guess just you know, most Apparently, the Technicolor in this film is just gorgeous. I mean the really nobody no camera that any film is shot on these days is able to reproduce the kind of color that Technicolor could granted that's because Technicolor we're shooting for different color film simultaneously. And honestly the colors like weren't true to life either, which is what made Technicolor so unique. But just the the deeps of the the depth of the reds, the the way the sand appears on the screen, the blue in the sky. Even like the beige of the soldiers uniforms, just it really just popped visually and, you know, a lot of not a lot of films, but I could think of a couple of other films from the 30s first one that comes to mind also shot in Technicolor was Wizard of Oz. And I knew you're gonna say that before you Yeah, well how can you not how can you not mention the Technicolor I think it was the film that made Technicolor but it just kind of made me sad that this one isn't really remembered as well because visually it is this. It's a very large scale, high caliber production. And there are there are a couple of those from the 30s like, Gone with the Wind like Wizard of Oz. And this one's just really not remembered for a couple of reasons. Granted, I don't think it's quite as good as those two other films, I still think it's really good, and a lot of ways, but visually cinematic graphically it had everything there. So I just maybe it was that it was a British production and it didn't really receive the distribution in the United States or overseas that it that those films had. I mean, they were just manifold reasons really. But I don't know there's there's a lot that you can learn from this and there's a lot to appreciate just on on a visual basis. So their first thing that came to mind I love the color love the way it looks. Yeah. I will say if it was actually well remembered you This is how you know is a not well remembered movie. This is a movie and I'm not going to we're again we're going to talk about this later, but this is a movie that is prime for a card before the movie like Gone with the Wind where we say, Hey, this is of the time there are some problems in this one, but this movie is so forgotten that no one even bothers to get outraged about it. There's not even a single I was trying to do research and I tried looking up podcast episodes to talk about the four feathers and there was not a single one not any of the iterations not the book not anything no one talks about this movie so thank you for the SEO search by the way or the one and only but that's fine you know again, like I did with passion Avada we're starting the new wave don't give a final wave of attention give a fuck I don't IT folks I forgot to before you want to get in got into it. I forgot to say we start this off we do. We each do our three likes or three favorite aspects. And then we follow that with our three dislikes least favorite aspects so obviously it's gonna get pretty pretty rough later on but we're gonna start Hey, at least sure it's pretty rough later on. I didn't know that you haven't said it four times just watch it's not going to be rough at all folks. It's gonna be very very placid very calm like a weekend on at the lake I'm trying I'm trying to do like the bachelor finale and just tease it out I want to I want you listeners to just keep on tuning like that that's where you got to do it that you save the good stuff for the end so they keep on tune in and they're like oh man we got to keep on listening because shits about to go down and it is gonna go down you guys can stop listening if you want to fuck is wrong with you. So that was my first favorite aspect Shawn what's yours oh my god to go off of that and to go off ironically passion of Anna because he brought that up my like that goes along with what you said is and again this is a callback to that episode the numerous fires so so you know you have some other keep going. I said also I also wrote also the numerous battles. They also have another note underneath that there's another what's the other note underneath your number three there. That's Did you add? What is it say? It says what does it say Shawn? Now that's it. I go off of another outline. You can't see well, yeah, that's right. So I'm not looking at the additions that you Okay, the numerous fires showing numerous fires, like Jani was saying earlier, detect the colors pretty good. The color is really striking, vibrant. And that is really on full display. There's a couple scenes that display fire and use it very prominently in a way that is really striking. I don't use the word, maybe the word beautiful, but I think it's more that. No, I was so gorgeous. Really? Yeah. But I gorgeous. But I just feel like it looks great. But I wouldn't necessarily use that word just based off of our connotation of that word. You know, just because these fire scenes are during very brutal and gritty war scenes. So I don't really want to use that word, but it's it's very vibrant. Yeah, or is great guys love that war. But the the particular scene I am, there's one shot in particular in the middle with the not the main battle, but the first real battle where all the soldiers are lined up in a row, and then the fire is behind them. And they are turned not away from camera. But what's it like in on profile, and it's just a really great shot. And again, the fire kind of surrounding them within the shot is really a sight to behold, moving on the battles in general, because at this time, there was not the special effects that we have today. They had to really get everybody in these bow sequences. There's just a wide swath of people. It's like hundreds of people hundreds dissipating this, it's really an incredible display. It's not quite to Yeah, it is on location. I mean, I yeah, I don't know if you did this research. But the director was in the army, I guess, Around this time, maybe a little later. And it was really important to him to go to the actual scenes where this would have taken place. So he went to those locations that actually shot there. Wow. So he has a great look has a great visual style. And I think this was easily pretty influential on Lawrence of Arabia. I haven't seen Yeah, I agree. Lawrence quite like this. Yeah, I agree. Lawrence of Arabia is stronger in this area. But Oh, no. That being said, Lawrence of Arabia is one of the most amazing, striking, beautiful films in that regard. So you can't really compare but I would say for a film that was made in 1939 It's remarkable that 100 years later, at just, well, not sorry, nearly 100 years, I meant to say nearly in front of that. They were able to achieve this at that time. We talked a little bit about Was it the general a couple weeks ago in the scale in that film, very similar things going on just you just watch it and you go Holy fucking shit, you know? So that's my point. Yani what's your next point? Or do you want to go off of that and say anything? Well kinda Yeah, it's it's kind of going off of that it's really my my next point is just I love the whole middle hour of this film. So at some point the all the boys go off to war Harry stays behind. He eventually follows them and so everything starting from that point where he gets down into the Sudan manages to join up with the end the other thing is like his journey in a very it's a very physical it's a very physical journey He it is not easy on his body enabled for him to be able to join up with the his first comrade or like, enable the Enable for it now, why do I keep that guy bad that in order even that in order, you want to keep everything you told me that again? Keep it keep it in order for him to be able to catch up to Captain durance, who was a guy who was competing for one of his comrades who was competing for his now ex fiance's hand and I guess Captain durance and her now an item again, in order for him to catch up to him he has to join a part of the labor force that's essentially pulling the British forces upstream up the I think it's up the Amazon have to this is all a choice. Well, he doesn't have to but it's how he does it without getting caught. It's it's how he does it by blending in which visually No, he doesn't exactly blend in but that's one of my we'll get into that. But he's able to do it, he catches up and eventually at the same time, the I forget what What is this guy's title? It is the the MA D Muhammad Ahmad, the Mahdi. He eventually gets wind of this sends forces to attack the British. There's a big skirmish right before this Captain durance blinds himself gets sunstroke. Shawn, I'm sure has a lot to complain about that. But he's completely blinded out. He's like, and he's one of the few survivors. And with him blind and Harry in disguise, everyone else dead, deserted, captured gone, Harry without revealing himself to Captain durance tracks in through the desert for who knows how long until they wash up on the shore of the Nile. And Captain durance is saved. And he's sent back into like the slave labor force or were sent back into the labor force. So he can try and at this point, rescue his two other comrades because they were taken hostage. And basically, it's that it's that hour. That's what I really love. Because there's this been this competition between Harry and Captain durance the whole time, this sort of contentious relationship, and to see him help this guy out who essentially betrayed him in several senses, help them out, save his life, and then go on to subject himself volitionally to more physical hardship to more danger, to save his other to save his other friends. It's really, really just kind of cool, kind of awesome. Now, emotionally as a character, he doesn't make all the changes you kind of hope he does or you don't see them. And we'll get into that because that's a dislike of mine. But everything in an event by event basis in the middle our I love. Okay, I feel like the likes that I made on my previous point are about partly what you're saying. There are a lot of problems I have with the mental our we'll get to it. But I did want to ask because I'm not I don't want to step on a later point. But I want to ask since we're on it right now. Why the hell Why on earth? Did he not reveal himself? Why did he not say anything? Why did he not even at least do a unconvincing accent? Why did he do nothing? You know, it's hard for me to put myself in that position. I thought about the same thing. You know, I was seeing it and thinking, Okay, there's such a good chance you guys can die. Why not just say something? You know, who cares if he finds out now if he finds out now Honestly, it might be even easier to save them at the end of the day. And I think this is just like a big flaw in the character himself. I think it's just pride. At the end of the day, I think he doesn't want to reveal himself because he wants the satisfaction of knowing he was able to save this man's life, this guy who essentially tossed him aside not only as a friend, but as a soldier as a man in general, the satisfaction of knowing he was able to save this man's life without him discovering that until a later date. That's the only reason I can really think of it's not a great reason, in fact, to a lot to a pretty convinced and like, it's a totally unconventional reason. And it could have killed him and durance. And so I don't know if that's a totally great motivation. But that's all I've got. And it's honestly like, it's it's one of the reasons it's one of the several narrative character reasons narrative and character reasons why I think this could have been a stronger film. Yeah, I mean, I would say going along with potentially being a stronger movie. twofold things I want to say first is it would have been far more interesting storyline because the main conflict Yes, it's between who I'm going to call not Heath Ledger, his name is Harry but on call not Heath Ledger, because Heath Ledger plays the role Harry fabric ledger plays the role and the other movie. So the main conflict is between not Heath Ledger, and Durant's. Whatever the guy's name is, yes. So to have that desert track that could potentially be so important for the characters. You could theoretically not have any of the end battle and have the rest of the movie just be about them pushing through the desert, then to have this character it to have him Harry reveal himself and say, Hey, I'm actually Harry and have them go through the catharsis and the struggles of their relationship would be far more interesting than the montage that we have. And I understand it was a it was still stuck strong a montage with the track and everything. I will give you that it's not like they were running out I had potential to be a lot stronger. And I would say, in the Heath Ledger version, this really threw me for a loop. They totally cut that out. It's literally he's blind. And Heath Ledger is like, okay, we'll help you out. Totally cuts desert trek out and I'm like, Oh, that's so important to The character growth that it's shocking to me that you cut it out. Yeah. Because I think at that point, the the tractor, the desert, I think that's the point at which he realizes it's not just about proving himself as, as a man as a soldier. It's about saving his life, you know, and I think that's the point at which he realized it's always about saving the other two as well. It's like, it's a it's a battle lot of things it but it's like that character needs to go through that, you know, like Jesus walking through the desert kind of bit, you know, in a sense, you don't see that you see the tribulation, you just don't really see how he reacts to it. Yes, you know, not as again, it's not as strong as it could be. But I do feel like it's really important to have ended this second thing I wanted to say. And again, I don't want to harp on this, but the fact that Okay, we have him make it a point not to reveal his identity, and not to say not to speak, right. And this this scene with his blind friend. And then at the end of the movie, when they're doing the he essentially gets some self thrown into the prison camp with all the other British hostages, and then finds his friends, who are they in there? And then almost immediately, well, not immediately, but pretty quickly reveals himself and starts speaking regularly and everything I'm like, Okay, I'm fine with you doing that. But then it makes the earlier instance, far more confusing. And I just don't want i get i don't understand if you're going to be willing to talk here. Why were you not willing to talk there is something that bugs the shit out of me in a lot of other movies like I will I know I've said this before in the podcast, and I'll say it till I die. That's what pisses me off about Logan so much. I hate silent characters, when they're silent for no fucking reason, like, well, situation. He's, uh, he's, he's not an actor. And he, you know, he'd never been to the Sudan and he could have practice working on an accent but I know but in the language No, I'm not I'm not saying that. I'm not saying a technical reason I'm saying like, literally you could speak you you demonstrated that you're willing to speak to your friends earlier why in this instance earlier? I mean, later why in this instance earlier, did you not choose not to and I know you gave it a explanation but it's just generally our fall so I think the ending is it's more dire you know, they've heard they've heard tell that there is a guaranteed chance of death coming a guaranteed Absolutely. 100% of the prisoners are going to be executed in the morning that's what they say that when they're in the jail cell someone's overheard that or that's what's been reported Sure. There's still a good chance that they could make it through the desert like this desert trek was not dire. I mean, it's literally a fucking it was dire. No. through the desert totally was but he knew the distance and he knew the way back. That's the thing. He knew that he knew all these things the Amazon is, is it fresh? Fresh water, I don't know, is not even one of my negs, I'm gonna let me get the positive. Okay. So my second positive is the so because this goes off of what we were talking about. When not Heath Ledger and his blind companion finally make it to the British camp after trekking to this desert, totally exhausted and famished as the British officers guards. Notice them now Heath Ledger sneaks into and he should have done this earlier. I don't know. I don't know why he didn't do earlier. But whatever. Anyways, he grabs a letter from his friends pocket, and then takes one of the feathers that his friends sent him and puts it in the letter. And it's symbolic and like, Hey, you told me I couldn't fucking do it that I was a coward. Well, I am showing you You bastard, which is great. But it's I'm in this scene that really proves impactful. It's the later scene in which because this guy's now blind if he gets sent home, right? So he's having this dinner party with not Heath Ledger, his ex fiance and some other family Romeros? Yeah, General Burrows, the his fiancee fiance's father. And another bit of context is a senior to earlier the friend of the father says to the ex fiance, he said, he told me Harry told me that what he accomplishes through his adventure is going to be so obvious that we don't he doesn't even have to tell us or he's gonna die, right. So we have that setup. And then this scene is the payoff, where blind guys like Oh, man, it was a crazy experience in the desert. This Sudanese guy who couldn't speak helped me out I wouldn't make it out through him. And by the way, I have this letter. He was right. He's rifling through my pockets, but didn't steal anything. He's looking at my letter guy takes out the letter and shows it to the ex fiance. She opens a letter up and then the feather drops out and we all know what it fucking is. And he's like what's going on what happened? And it's such a I'm to glide it's such a mic drop moment. It's also very Bollywood like melodramatic moment where you go, you know, obviously it's not that but your ego like all my fucking god, he got him, he got them. And the guy just totally oblivious. The blind guy totally oblivious to what is happening. It's a great scene. It's so good. I apologize for constantly calling him blind guy. I just cannot remember his name and Captain Captain duras we know he doesn't have he doesn't have endurance, endurance, well, his vision doesn't enter. Okay, so kind of going off of that. My next thing is actually it involves Gen burrows and Catan durance. One of my third likes was just basically all the times Harry does something really sly. And there are a number of those moments throughout. With, for instance, this scene with Captain Darren slides, a poodle? Not slides, slides a poodle. Yeah, because the phrases sliced off, that's a but Oh, he's not a fox, he's a poodle. Okay? Whether it's that or when he's playing the pipe, pretending to play the pipe in front of his friends who were imprisoned. And he goes up to them. And he has a message written on the pipe that says, Don't despair. And then he just like kind of dances off. And then this one really great moment of Oh, it's hairy, but you know, okay, whatever. One really great moment at the very end. When he's back, he, basically all of England knows what he did. And he's having dinner with his ex fiance, now fiance, and her father. And she asks, because he before he left, he made her pick a feather, and then give it to him. And she asks, How are you going to earn? Or how are you going to earn my father back or something. And so the general after that point, he asked the general I think, to tell this one story that the general is telling for the third time in this story, he tells it at first in the very beginning when Harry's like 15, another time at a party later before Harry resigns as post and now at the very end. And it's the same exact story, he tells it the same exact way, right down to the right down to the pieces of food he uses to resemble it's a war story resemble the different sides. Walnuts are always the Russians. He's always a pineapple, a giant pineapple, pompous piece of an apple is always the head of command. And then he dips his finger in some wine and draws it in front of him. And he calls that the red lie, the Thin Red Line, because they're all amazed, ciated and nobody's eating anything. And as he's going through the story, at the very end, Harry reveals that his father told him the truth about the story. And that was that the Russians accidentally fired off a shot, his horse got scared. And he ran the horse ran down and led the charge accidentally, instead of him saying, you know, the 68th will not fall back or, or something like that. And so the generals like I can never tell the story ever again. Thanks, man. And that's how Harry gets the feather back is that he gets the general to stop telling this story. He has been telling ad nauseum for the past like 20 years. And it's just it's another one of those. Not only is it another, like kind of one of those Mic drop drop moments, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's just such a fantastic button to end the film on. Like, it didn't you weren't expecting this to happen at all, because you're thinking okay, well, he's he's pretty much saved an entire regiment. There's no need for him to actually worry about getting her feather back. And then it goes the extra mile gives you this scene. And it's just yet you end on such a high note. I really love it. It's it's the sort of thing you don't see in modern filmmaking anymore. You see it all the time. No, you didn't end enzinger like that, that as a call thing that smart. Nothing that smart. It's not just a callback. It's it's a part of the actual plot. It's really not you know, it figures they're usually parts of the plot. It's, it's not that special. It's so it's super special. Anyways, go on. Ironically, I find it funny how our points have really blended off of each other very well. Because my there's a lot to like, know that just how it's how we're transitioning. I'm saying how we're transitioning. Not that there's a lot to like, but I know you're about to start off on a tirade. I'm not getting into the negs yet. I'm finishing my last like my last like, which ironically actually is a backhanded compliment, but has to do partly with what Yani was just talking about the first I'd say 25 minutes of this movie got me really hopeful and optimistic. I thought it was really strong, because it was a little unclear. And when I say that, what we basically start with is the, there's an opening battle scene to a degree, I thought that was really interesting, because they overlay footage in this way that is really unique for the time. And I'm like, Oh, that's a cool way to do that. But neither here nor there. Anyways, we have like Jani was saying, Harry, when he was younger, and general, what's his face, giving this speech, Rose, Ori burrows. And at first I was kind of horrified. And that this, how he is describing war and death, and quote, unquote, cowardness. It's kind of disgusting. I wasn't down for it. And at that point, because an older film, I'm like, what is the what are you trying to say? What's the message of this film? I tried to say, Yes, I agree with these guys. Or no, I'm actually critiquing them. And I had, I wasn't sure at first. And then we cut to Harry, later on, he is in the army, and everything he's on top of the world. He's about to get married, and they're about to get shipped off. And before he gets shipped off is like, I resign. And they're like, what are you doing, he's like, I've thought about this a lot, I should have done this earlier, I resign. And then he goes back to his fiance at the time. And he reveals that and burrows and his fiance both kind of look at him with shame and scorn. And they're like, and this is also the scene when he gets the feathers. And I say all that context to say, when I was watching this, I didn't think this movie is necessarily about cowardness in him trying to prove themselves. I didn't know what this movie was gonna be. I didn't look it up ahead of time. So I thought that this was going to be Oh, this is a statement on being anti war that when this guy heard that story earlier on, he's like, I don't want to be that barbaric person. I don't want to look at war. With such I don't wanna say Glee, but nostalgia. And that quest for glory. I thought, I thought this movie was ahead of its time, I thought it was for 1939 to be progressive. And I thought was particularly interesting, because this this movie came out a couple of months before World War Two started. So I'm like, this movie would not get made in the Uber patriotism. That is the films of the 40s that were just super pro war pro army stuff, you know, so I was like, wow, this movies really gonna say something. And then right after it goes, No, I resigned because I'm a coward. I'm just a fucking coward guys. And I'm like, God damn it. It is no and then and then it goes other places where Sean's wrong Sean's that's he says that in a very self defeatist moment, and then the person who's with who was the doctor that child was talking about was like, No, you know, that's not true. That's not why, and normally never even treats it like he thinks he's a coward, either. So that's the whole point of the movie, though. I agree that the doctor says, hey, you're not a coward, and that he's maybe telling himself a little bit. But my point is that I thought he was being brave and resigning, I thought he was being brave, and that he was standing up for more pacifist anti war principles. Were in reality, no, how can you pass he say that when he then go? No. But then he goes out to the war and fights and does all this stuff. Oh, he does. That's the thing, though. And again, you're right, because he also doesn't fight. He also doesn't fight for that, for the majority of the time for the Moral Majority of the runtime runtime. His reactions are totally pacifist. He only kills somebody he only fights when he has to save his life or save somebody else's life. That's that's the only he's not like going in guns blazing and shooting everybody can like that's not what's happening blazing. But I don't know. But it's not like he's there's another version of this movie. Or if you wanted to have that quote unquote pacifist ideal. A, you would actually say it. He never actually says this is what I stand up for, which leads me to believe that that's not actually the message of the movie. I think that is what he says. And I think that is what he stands down. I think that is the message of the move. I want that I think message there is so I think there's potential for to have been, I think there was the fear of being of considering oneself cowardly for holding those beliefs true. And I think it might be easy to put yourself into that place if that's what everyone's telling you. But his reaction to being told that he is a coward does not prove that the war that this film has any sort of like pro war pro colonialism, pro life Blah, blah, blah sort of sentiment at all. It's about this timeless verity of just like what is bravery. It's about bravery in the face of adversity. Ultimately, at the end of the day, that's that's what I think it's about improving, you know, to yours, not just to everyone else, but also to yourself that you have the strength and the courage to be the person that you think and know you are. I agree with what you literally just said that that's what the movie is about. But I don't feel like that is cohesive, or with the idea of that what we were talking about just before, which is anti war sentiments, because if you if we were going to have that version of the storyline, he would either have to stay home, and, you know, be more outspoken against the war be more outspoken. Why are we sending men to do this? You know, and is interesting not to digress too much. But in the remake the 2002 remake with Heath Ledger, he really is a fucking coward. It's like no two ways about it. That's they double down on that. Alright, it's Do you really like that one more than this one? No, I think this one. Okay, well, here's the thing they both have. They're both really flawed, but in really different ways. But they both have the brownface they both have their birthday. Yay. I would also like just like to say that the that the the main antagonistic force here, or I guess like the the most powerful antagonistic force was also just not a great guy. He was Sudanese, he was local. He also liked to draw parallels, but between him and the Prophet Muhammad, he thought he essentially thought he was the Prophet Muhammad, he made himself the leader of the entire Islamic movement in the Sudan, and wait, just announced a holy war against not just, you know, the Turks and the Egyptians, but just everybody who wasn't Muslim in that country. So the guy that we're talking about this, you know, the villain of the movie film wasn't exactly a great guy, historically speaking, either. But that, okay, I'll just say real quick with that. I haven't done the research. So I'm not going to say one way or another. So folks, before you take Yani, for at his word, just do the research. But I will say, going back to my point, the movie, The 2002, Heath Ledger movie, I because of when it came out, I not sure if it's talking more about the Iraq war or the Gulf War. But it along with that cowardness, it brings up the idea of like, why are we going to this distant land to fight a battle that's not ours. And that's kind of an idea here as well, not nearly as much but it is interesting, and also going along with what I was saying just before about a one version of the story, where if you really want him to be a pacifist, there's a version where he stays home. There's also a version where with what you were just saying, they are still, he still does most of what he does. But at the end, he finds a way to do things without fighting. He does some because of the movie, really. And here's, here's the thing, what really solidifies that the movie is not about that pacifist idea that anti war sentiment is the ending that you just praised. Because that's the time where if he was going to say a comment, if he was going to say how he really felt to Burrows, that was the time he needed to do that. So I thought he was gonna say, bullshit, dude, you are a coward yourself. You prepare, you pretend that is exactly what he said. He said that without saying it. He said it slightly. Yeah, but that's essentially my there's a difference between saying it sorry, let me know what I will say right now. There's a boring way saying it with a wink and a nod as opposed to actually being a little more disrespectful about it, which I think is honestly what he should have been like, dude, I know. I'm kidding. I felt would have been so boring. That would have been that's like my journey. That's not boring. That's Hey, dude. I fucking risked my life to prove a point to save my friends. You are fucking lying about your own bravery. So don't even fucking dare bring up this story. You can go fuck yourself. That's what he should know. That would have been so immensely weak. Oh my Oh, so much stronger than ever. I thought that was the ending they have. There's so much nuance to the ending they have right now. It's so much. That's so no nuance. It's a wink and a nod so much more subtle. It implies all of that without actually saying any of it without saying you don't earn what you just said was completely on the nose is which is the sort of thing that you also weighs on and knows about there. It's themes. It's very on the nose about all of it, if it's so on the nose about all of it. Why can't it be so Bro, why can't it not be on the nose at the end to compensate? What's wrong with that? It would be great if it's not on the nose at the end, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either it's being on the nose or it's not and is being on the nose about everything. So at the end, it's still being on the nose. I hate fucking this phrase constantly, but it's not being subtle about what you're saying. Anyways, let's move on to our dislikes. That's enough of our likes of this movie. Let's get on the dislikes Jani start us off. I'll go. This is the part where it gets rough. There's, this is where everyone is where we're gonna actually start yelling at each other. I'm going to turn down my mic. So Yani, okay, we, we share our dislikes to a degree? You you'd start us off pick which one you want to start us off with? Uh, let's see number three. Maybe I'll come up with something. There we go. Okay, Jani. Third dislike my number one. Yeah, I don't have a third dislike. I really only dislike two things. My first thing is my major. Can I say my third? No like that out of the way. Okay, fine. Whatever. Go just say it. The blind guy had the friend was it was named again. dranzer. And Captain durance. Captain durance has storyline up not his whole storyline. But essentially, when the scene and what she becomes blind, is incredibly dated. He basically goes all the way up this mountain going up the rocks. It's a little silly. But then when he stumbles down, it's even goofier and sillier. I literally took a screenshot and sent it the yonni of him like on the ground die. Well, I didn't actually get that. No. Oh, sorry. I didn't send it to you. It's on the structure of the top of the structure. Oh, it's on the structure. I you know, I agree to a certain extent. It's it's Jade. It's not a good fit. It's just kind of dated. But they did to do some pretty unique looking first person point of view shots that you don't really see in a lot of filmmaking around that time and I had to look it up. I'm like, Can you go blind from a heat stroke? That doesn't sound like a thing. And folks, if you've ever heard of that, please write in and tell me I did my darndest with the research and even I found this medical paper from like, around the same time period that was like it's questionable. Really, what how I feel like now keep going. You have what really have going back and actually analyzing it. It's not that he gets it from a heatstroke, he gets it from he passes out from the heatstroke and has his eyes open and the sun damage his retinas because he's straight up looking at the sun for like an entire day. So I get wet that what they call it a sun stroke. It's not a heat stroke in the movie. It's a sun stroke. Yeah, it's the same thing they call the sunstroke in the movie. But the comment that the modern term is heatstroke. Okay, either way I mean look this was written by somebody in the period who I'm sure had probably encountered people who'd lost their vision that way so I'm not that super skeptical of it is this actually dislike this is a dislike but it's it's less of how he got it and more of a couple notes I made. When I saw when he initially passes out. I thought he died and I wrote I literally said good thing she didn't marry that guy. He died like a chump. Do you know how hot it is in Africa? Did you want this adventure movie to die like that is such a disgraceful death. Yeah, it is. It would it would have which is why it didn't happen that way. Yeah. But also is going along with the time period he when he's stumbling around being blind. And this is something that the 2002 movie does a better job at a that's not how he gets blind. He gets blinded in 2002 movie because his gun misfires and the shrapnel goes into his eyes and blinds him, which is a lot better to do. It's more logical But anyways, I guess the movements them in this 1939 movie him stumbling around being blind. Almost This looks like a goofy farce. It really is a little silly luck. It's it's a little stagey. Yes. But yes, but for being a okay. It's a little stagey. It doesn't really look super realistic. I will give you that. However, the way they film it, including those first person POV shots to do that with a Technicolor camera. I think that was very, I'm not gonna say it was like groundbreaking because it probably wasn't at the time, but you don't see it a lot. You don't see a lot of sure you don't see the shots in Technicolor films. Sure. But I think that also brings into the further question of was he blind or was his vision impaired? Because there's a significant vision was impaired at those moments. But I mean, remember what they said he passed out he was looking at the sun destroyed his didn't destroy his retinas damaged it and then because he was too prideful to admit his vision was lost. He was went for an entire day without telling anybody that he was blind and then had to walk through the desert, also blind without any treatment or rest to his eyes. And that's what caused him to be permanently blind. Okay, I would have to go back and look at that. That's exactly what the doctor says he spent like, four or five days out in the desert. I know, the doctor says, I'm just saying that how when those shots are put, if that corresponds to what he had semi sight, or he was supposed to have no sight at certain times? I don't know. It's, it's not it's not really that important. Yani what point do you want to talk about? Um, it's, it's the most, I think it's the most important point. And for me, it's what kind of draws this film down from whatever heights it could have. Actually, I know what point you're going to reach the important point, but Sure, it is, it definitely is. And it's just that when you have a film where the protagonists journey and their transformation, their arc across the narrative is pretty much the theme. It's the it represents the entire theme of the film, it's kind of the most important thing to see change. And Harry's transformation is kind of vague. or whenever it does happen, it kind of happens implicitly. Like it's almost entirely off screen. Yeah. And for that reason, you know, I, I was talking about this earlier, I don't actually ever think I don't think he ever really didn't, or I don't think he ever truly believed he was a coward. I think he was afraid of the possibility that he was a coward, that he might be perceived. And that kind of just like that all ties back into pride and or early 19th century masculinity, especially in Britain, which is a very different thing than it is now and something that we can't really, you know, we're still coming down from it, honestly. But it's something that's so yeah, no shit, impossible to really comprehend, from this stage so far off, that I don't really think that we understand truly like where his character was. But I do think that fear was in part tributary to his decision. And his decision to leave and return the feathers is honestly as much to prove to his comrades as himself that he was not actually afraid. But when he goes there, he encounters a bunch of trials that are just unexpected, right? He doesn't expect the, what is it? The Kurdish is I think the Kurdish is and ma de Muhammad Ahmad, he doesn't expect them to attack he doesn't expect durance to be blinded, doesn't expect his other comrades to be captured. And so at that point back to just straw and be like, Hey, guys, here's your feathers bag, I'm peacing out. No, obviously, he's disguised. So he's expecting to sneak the feathers on to them. So they can find them, like after the fact. And I think that's that was his plan from the very getgo. And then everybody gets kidnapped or killed or blinded. And these trials, you know, everything, he goes through the desert, and then like being imprisoned, and then that final stage at the end that was all intended to transform his experience into something that was more than just self affirmation, and blow by blow we see like these incidents, and how we react to them, and how his decisions, I guess, change in a sense, but we just don't see him grow emotionally. It's like he, at a certain point, early on, when he makes the decision to go, he is the same person more or less emotionally as the one that he leaves as, as the one in that very last scene. And, you know, like I said, that emotional transformation, it's at the crux of this story. And it's something that's just kind of clearly absent to the viewer, it, it really just, it creates a big distance between you and the protagonist. And you know, having that distance between other secondary characters and antagonist. That's something that is a little more forgivable, but it really isn't with with your leading character. And so that was just something that was I thought, what I found most disappointing. Yeah, and it's exactly it's like you were saying, the whole freakin point of this movie is the character for the characters growth. This is not a movie where the plot was not nest, he instigated the whole plot, you know, the the whole film is centered around this idea of, we're going to take a coward quote, unquote, and show that he's going to be able to prove himself by standing up and doing brave actions. That's literally in the face of the plot. He does everything required increasingly more and more bravery. Yes, but yes, it's increasingly he is it's increased chances are higher. Yeah, it's more just don't see the human don't see it. And the thing is, I just feel I feel that as soon as he goes to the studio, And adopts his disguise, he pretty much seems to have conquered 75% of his cowardness, quote unquote, and like had that growth again, kind of off screen. So there's not really a ton of upward trajectory. There's not a lot, no, not too many places he could go, you know. So it's like, he conquered that early on in the movie. And then the movie just says, we're going to just reinforce this idea again and again and again, you know, yeah, no, I that's, it's a problem. And it's something that I didn't really think too much about watching it the first time through, but you know, honestly, the first time you watch anything, I don't know, I feel like to be like truly critical of something or to really get at what its flaws are, you have to watch it at least that second time, they're saying the show is doomed to again, you don't want me to watch that movie again. Because it's just gonna be an hour and a half of me saying the word thumb. That's it. Yeah. Or Okay, so what's your first dislike? You say? I said, as you drool over your poster of ridiculous shows are ending. This is our main dislike, this is our main dislike that we've been leading up to. And this is basically what we're going to talk about the rest of the podcast. So folks, here it is. and transitioning. This is a sub point that I had to the point we were just talking about, that will transition us into the next point. I wrote, he's like Batman, as soon as he puts on to the skies of the thing he fears most. He masters his fears. He's like racist Batman, because he conquers his fears of, he puts on an Sudanese Arab costume, essentially. And now he's like, Arab man. Facing what I'm alluding to folks, is my point, which is I wrote the brownface everything about it. This lead character for the majority of the movie puts on brown face and I could not believe what I was watching. I could not believe that this is the thing you chose knowing that this was in this movie. I mean, this it sure, I know. You're gonna defend it and say the character he's not he's still an English guy putting on the disguise putting on makeup. So that somehow makes it a little bit better than if he was straight up playing. What's By the way, it's also not putting on makeup. He has his skin dyed and he has he's branded with a red or white hot iron in the forehead, and receives a scar that He has for the rest of his art. Did the actor get his skin dyed the dagger? We're talking about the character we're talking about the character one two that makes it to it was it was the only No, finish your point? Fine. Finish your point. I'm sorry. Keep going. Did you have anything else time I tried. Let me think where I was at because you're just so wrong. It's so wrong. It's hard. It's Listen, it's something where Johnny is going to give a lot of defenses about the brown face. And personally, I think it's something where you shouldn't even bother trying to defend it. You should honestly it's one of those things that Yeah, is is it of a certain time is that of the past sharp, but that's there are many horrible things of the past that you can't really excuse that you go Yeah, that's all the time but that doesn't mean it's okay. That doesn't mean it was technically okay. That's like saying you know what, even though I know the British upper class we're fine with it. You know, we're if I don't I seriously doubt the people of Sudan are watching this movie, but I can't imagine they'd be like what Yeah, movie theaters Good job. But similarly, let's say this is take took place in India, because keep in mind, this is the same year that Gunga din came out a movie that you really should have chosen because that is an actor who does brown face as an Indian, that's more actual brown face than this one. But not particularly better. That's a movie. And to know, I took a class when I went to University of Texas called a media empire that dealt with all this that dealt with British canola, canola lichen, I can't I pronounce it colonialism. That's right, the Brits, they went around the world and they just they deliver on cannolis to everybody. It was awful. That burns melted in the Africa Shut up. It discussed in part British colonialism in cinema and how that's portrayed and also how colonialism affected cinema. And this is this is one of those examples where it is both portrayed but also how it affected cinema. Right? And how you thought Oh, yeah, it's perfectly okay for this guy to just put on this disguise. And and, you know, essentially do this and you can listen, is it part of the book? Yes. Is it inherently part of the story? Yes, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have to do that. I mean, to give you an example, the 2002 movie, it still does the brown face. It doesn't make it as a gracious it's more like Heath Ledger just accidentally fell into brown makeup and they never address it and it's kind of weird, but It doesn't make it, it's, it's not as bad, but it's still bad. And it's something where just do another do another fucking time period do another storyline where you just don't have to necessarily like you can still have the still have the same themes and ideas without doing this. Essentially what we call it in that class was essentially quote unquote, going native, you know, an actor going native in their portrayal. And that's what the the, the character I mean, that's what the actor is doing. As this British guy, he's doing his best. I know it's cinghiale. But for it's it's a fictional tribe, a fictional tribe. So medic doesn't really make it better. That really is Yeah, it does, actually. I mean, it is really arbitrary at all, but no visual they wanted to make him that's a visual representation of a fictional tribe of an African and guess what's North Africans and Africans do want to note, do you want to know something? Do you want to know something? What large amount of North Africans are symmetric, which means that basically the same thing ethnically as Middle Eastern, which doesn't mean that? Sorry, does that mean that lead characters now Middle Eastern, No, it doesn't. But also, at the same time, he wasn't trying to, I don't know, find upwards mobility in their society, he was trying to blend in and not be discovered, because guess what a holy war was being waged against people and his skin color. And if he hadn't done it, he could have been captured and killed. Now, granted, he didn't need to go down there at all. But he still did. He did what happened in the book and logically, how else would you have sneaked into a country where you're not the native and not been found out? How would you have done that? This is an inherent problem with the story. And that's something that you know, this this doesn't need to be depicted. I mean, like I said, we have Gunga din coming out this year, we have gone with the wind coming out this this year, we have stagecoach coming out this year. What are all those films have in common? They are yes of a certain era that we look back on and say Hmm, maybe the depictions of non white people is problematic and honestly kind of disgusting and disgraceful. So you can you can give whatever defenses that you There are plenty of depictions of non white people in this movie that aren't offensive either played by actual people who are not white plenty of depictions upstanding soldiers upstanding soldiers on the other side they just existed no Turks Turks and actual like native the what is it the Turk Ottoman for the turret that what is it the Anglican Turks or the Turk automate I can't remember exactly what they are. But they're natives fighting for the Turkish forces Listen, I will give you that I'm specifically talking about the the skies and not about the depictions as a whole. So all the other tribes and everyone just because honestly, they're not in it enough to really talk about they're just never the focus, so not really, it's not really worth getting into where it's not like Alec Guinness putting on brown face so he could play a character who's literally literally brown This is a guy going down the country. I'm not saying I'm not saying you should I think that's way more if I think you're really overblowing this this is too racist like tomato is a fruit I mean, yeah, I guess technically it is. But also nobody in their right mind really actually would like bite into a tomato first thing in the morning and say, Oh, this is delicious. I love this what an excellent source for natural sugar. I feel so energized This is definitely going to fuel me and my arguments for the rest of the day. This is such it's so low on the list that it's almost not worth mentioning. Not worth mentioning. This is like the only thing I want to add that I think is worth mentioning. To be honest with you. I think the rest of the movie could be thrown out because I'm just saying like of all the movies for you to have trouble with. This is like the last one on the list. It's not like he's in what is it? It's not like he's in the Jazz Singer makeup. He grows up here. I'm like, is that next? Yeah, you did. He grows a beard. His skin is darkened. He gets his forehead branded. And he is that it's dark and quote unquote, but the makeup is so inconsistent. It's like sometimes Yeah, yeah, the other thing is that this is also my Another problem is that his chest they never really darken his chest. But we're also led to believe that he's been down there for like years or months and you'd think like, after spending so much time in the sun after spending so much time in the sun you think his skin would just like naturally darken itself at that point. So like Why is his the makeups just like inconsistent on the chest. It's pretty consistent on the face, but like on the shoulder. How did anyone believe it? I think honestly, I think they should have realistically gone a little bit darker. That was like my other complaint is like if you wanted to sell it I would have believed that if he'd gone maybe a shader to darker here's the thing again, going off the time period. They're like, well, we want him to pretend to be a white guy and be so great as a white guy that he can successfully integrate himself into this this more savvy, white guy. Sorry, pretend to be a Sudanese song. Golly, Winchester is a person, I think, just North African. I don't remember if they're Sudanese specifically, they might have been a Sudanese tribe, they might have been, I might be that everybody knew Sudanese because that's in the the remake of the 2002 version takes place in the Sudan. So maybe that's it's just that everybody recognizes the mark on the forehead and the fact that he has, in the Heath Ledger movie, no one buys it, at least they they buy it when they don't really pay attention, but when anyone ever looks at Heath Ledger, they go Hey, you're actually a British guy. This is really fucking Paul. He has a turban on the whole time so nobody can see the hair on his head and he has a beard. And he, you know, he puts on this sort of like mentally I don't really know exactly how to put it. I don't think that he's pretending to be mentally handicapped. Like you mentioned earlier. I do think that his he's pretending that his mind has like kind of gone after he's lost his tongue. Yeah, I mean less than what I was saying earlier is kind of a generalization and that do I think the character is thinking that do I think the portrayal is 100% that no, what I think is more so going off what I was just saying is you're you are at the end of the day you think lesser of this person of this society. And in your portrayal you're pretending that this guy's quote unquote, more savage and I know I'm not being as a repost as I want to be right now. But essentially, I really, I don't take that. The thing is watching this and watching this again, how he moves how he portrays himself. Yeah, he's, he's, yeah, you know, and in every society, we, in every society across all epochs of human existence, we have fools and they are not the epitome of our society. There are fools there are gods and there are clods there are the kings there's zakresie there's the middle class, are you just like you Johnny ponza. Scotto. That's a Chris Harrison reference by the way folks, if you're a bachelor nation My point is that if you look at the fool and asst quite made of Chris Harrison Jani is the Chris Harrison. If you look at the fool in a society and you assume that that's what everybody inhabiting that society is like, then guess what, my friend You are the fool and that is something that is obvious. Okay, that I don't understand how you watch this film and take that away? I don't think it's I think I don't think it's a question at all I do. I don't think it is because every other character that isn't him and is a native and isn't one of a member of the antagonistic forces attempting to also you know, just mass murder a bunch of people that don't align with their beliefs isn't portrayed that way at all. It's not there yet. He's just playing the one foolish guy so he can blend in and send a message to his friends and that's the only time he really does it. That's the only time he does it. So he had them all feathers, FYI so we can save their lives because again, his his objective has changed at this point. You know that Okay, so have we talked about this ad nauseum? It got rough, got a little rough, but we're back. I think we're like I think it's appalling. But I know Jani big big fan. Here's the thing. Here's the thing everybody deserves now it's even worth defending. I don't know why you just don't give it to me. Also lightning I will say what I give it last thing I mean, I will say because you would not give me this at all. So I will just say the fact that you can buy that these people buy he or believe that he is ungodly, but you cannot an Ocean's 12 believe that Julia Roberts playing herself can't possibly like take cars off air to be set for us to Julia Roberts, two completely different people. Exactly. Nobody looks exactly the same. Like It's Always Sunny where where Glenn Howerton place himself and a pet a tile version of a salad movie that's also every Hollywood movie bollywood they're also highly fantasize. heightened it does it? No, I don't care. It is certainly Listen. Listen, I would say at least two back and regular times not during pandemic times because they never go out. But at least once a week or every other week. I will see somebody and I will say is that Jani? Did you really come up to them and you have an extended conversation with no you don't you see them from a distance? Not Bruce Willis going up to her talking to this character? Sure. But This character actually, by sheer coincidence looked exactly like her. So I can get you saying, I don't like the coincidence. coincidence, but to say that no one will believe her I think is bullshit. Bruce Willis. I love Bruce Willis. But I can certainly expect Bruce Willis and he has the same marks on her face. She has the same, the same birthmarks. The same beauty marks the same can't be exact same Canton or nose, same size nostrils, same exact same shaped eyes. All of that all that is exactly the same. Are you telling me that? Are you telling me that Julia Roberts is her name? Kate? I don't remember her name. It's 10k. Kim tests. Are you telling me that Julia Roberts and Tess have exactly identical faces down to the last mole? That is impossible? No. Yeah, whatever trillions. Odds are in the trillions. Almost global, the odds are almost the same that you can make it through 52 rounds at a Kuma tattoo at a qubits, a turnabout tournament, and 252 straight knockouts, quadrillions Bloodsport joke, folks go back. But I will say row, let's do this, what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I'm trying to necessarily try and defend it. What I'm saying is that you somehow got more upset about that, then this brown face and I think that's a problem and like, I have a real fuckin issue with that. And I went part of the reason why I drank and why I kind of went in this kind of a little annoyed and pissed off at you is just listen, folks, I'm sure you've caught this. But Jani and I have very different political opinions and are very different sides. And without getting into it too much. It's just like, I'm kind of pissed that you pick this and that you don't pick it about it. Why? Even like, walk up to people's stories tell them they need to be upset about it. It's just like you do it. I don't care as silly bollywood movies. It's like it's whatever. But anyways, yes, let's end this my my final thoughts. My final rating. This movie Carlisle. Oh my god, stop. Sorry, that was Carlisle. This movie is better overall than a lot of the other ones. Jani has pet. It's like what we were talking about, like, let's say Lawrence of Arabia, you can have problems with it. And it's racial politics. And it's dated pneus of that in regards to that. But at the same time, you still have to admire his filmmaking. And with this, the filmmaking, particularly for 1939 is pretty fucking good. It's really solid, with all the things that we talked about previously. And it surprised me. And because it's a combination of being really solid, but also, I'm watching this in 2021, and still able to hold my interest. It's not doll. I mean, I watched this right before the bachelor finale. And I kind of I did turn it off, because that was more pressing, but I kind of didn't want to turn it off. I kind of wanted to stay into it. So that's a testament to it's actually still pretty engaging. But like I said, the last two points that we just talked about is Can't we significantly bring it down. So again, I respect a lot of what it does, but I also do not respect a lot of what it does, and I could drone on, but I'm going to stop. I'm going to give this movie a 6.5 out of 10 on technical. Hey, you know what, honestly, I'll take it because I didn't I hated it. Oh, no, no, 6.5 we got I am saying unlike, like, say a lot of the other choices you pick. I didn't hate it. I had problems with it. But for not the same reasons. Usually I hate it because your movies are boring and pointless. This had merits that the other ones didn't. So yeah, I should just I should just choose movies I haven't seen in a decade more often. We should watch the Thomas the Tank Engine, film, film with with jack Donaghy in it. Say your sounds probably a lot better than version has themes and ideas. That's what you're saying? Yeah, most likely, yes. Again, I haven't seen it in close to 20 years. So over 20 years, actually, now that I think I have no idea. It's like 2002 or 2000. I don't I honestly am what would be invested in that anyways. So what are we watching next week, Shawn? And I have realized, oh my god, now you're so fat. And when you dig your claws into my thigh, you just you drat you just tear you tear away at the skin. I can't have you Carlisle kill him slit his throat kill him. I was just looking at his eyes out so that way when I visit Johnny in a week, we can go on a desert trek together, but I'll just leave them there to die. That's okay. No, I'm not gonna say the thing I was gonna say, what are we watching next week? what I was gonna say was gonna be very offensive. Yeah, I know it's gonna be. So with next week, I have a lot of thoughts about what I could pick because there's a lot of possibilities with transitions. I thought about, okay, let me do a film of the novel that takes place in the same time period. But that's more progressive, like no homes. But the thing is an old home so terrible movie, I'm not going to pick it. I can also pick another movie about four things and pick four brothers, but I have seen four brothers. And that was just a joke. I was saying it sucks also. So I could also like, what I was talking about earlier with character finding his bravery pick Batman Begins, but I don't want to pick Batman who just likes that. I would dislike that. I was also thinking because I wanted to go with the heist genre. I wanted to keep that alive. And when I was thinking about this a couple weeks ago, in this slot was going to be the original Dream Team going up the dream team from the Pink Panther to movie inception. Dream Team heist. vida, I didn't pick inception. Also, I like that. I mean, what you're not picking any movies that What is it? What are we watching? Let me I imagine I love it if this is the trend we're on. Alright, so I also really wanted to pick the movie legon because as I was talking about in my British cinema, or Africa with the class name was but the British colonialism class, we watched that movie. And that's a great contrast to this film, really strong contrast. The problem is that that movie is three hours and 40 minutes and Yani would kill me. If I picked it. It's great. You guys should watch it. It's It's so long, but it's so tremendous. I don't know I'm between a couple things. So I'll let you pick just pick one. What Okay, fine. So just yeah, I had this going off the colonialism aspect. I had either rota Eldorado I had another Bollywood movie called thugs of hindostan. Which is a great contrast of this movie. It does white face, it's actually would be perfect. It would actually see that's fine white faces. Okay, for like one scene. It'd be a great transition, but I it's not a white face. Would you be okay, if we did that? I because there is no I don't want to do please. I need a gap and I need a Bollywood gap all the time. Okay, and get one every 10 folk. Folks, check out those of Hindustan it would be it would have been a great conversation for next week contrasting it between forefathers in this. Maybe I'll pick it in the earlier half of my next bit because again, a lot to talk about. So I'm gonna say road to El Dorado because I love that movie. And what do you think about El Dorado? Actually, honestly, when I was a kid, the girl whatever her name was, I found her very attractive. I mean, we all did. So that's all I remember about it. And that's probably like, all I'll think of it's all just like, have really weird feelings about this imaginary character do that again. I can't I can't do that again. I can't do a Doom two. I'm only talking about the looks of one character and every single fucking point. I can't Oh, right. I was gonna say this way DreamWorks they made her hot It's not my fault. No, it's your fault that you got to harp on it when there's other things to talk about. Besides the fucking thought he doesn't have a double thumb or a double at well she has a double of sub look keep going. Alright, I was gonna say this right nine because there's gonna be a really good transition with I mean good double feature with my 10 so I'll give you the choice in an earlier episode we talked about confusing Spike Lee and spike Jones right you remember that conversation? We had? Yeah, I it's my life. So I'm gonna pick a spike movie. You just gotta tell me I have one for each. Which spike are we watching? Um Oh no. Oh, I love it should probably be Jones because I'm gonna Jones Jones why cuz you're gonna likely No, I'm gonna I'm gonna be mad with Lee because I like very few of Spike Lee's films. I do stress films well this spike Jones please are doing okay, what are we watching? Okay, so you know what spike Jones it was going to be three kings which confined Johnson Three Kings I thought Three Kings he didn't direct it David O Russell. Oh that doesn't attract should have said he was in it. You just want to give you that clarification. But okay, so we watching a Knicks game is that the spike lee Phil? No now. So we still have this is a heist adjacent. It's not necessarily a heist, but it follows falls into the realm to a degree And it goes off of some of the things you're talking about in this movie and can more elaborate right and it's not inside man because I actually don't like Inside Man shocking opinion Don't let that's the only one I like. Well that in like the 25th hour, those are the only two I need to see 25th hour. But Jani is pretty good. Edward Norton is great. We are watching the snubs film from this year the five bloods folks if you could see the stain on his face. Okay, instead I don't really like three kings. It's okay, but I know five bloods is great. Well, we'll do five bloods da da, folks. That's the title. Wait, sorry that it's da da. Yeah, yeah, I'm not doing that though. Five bloods? Okay. Okay. Hey, folks, Sean with a very quick audio footnote here. So after we recorded Jani bitch to me quite a bit about this. And we ultimately decided to go with three kings instead. Fear not, though five bloods is definitely coming up soon it will be on the early half of the next 10 we'll see where I haven't decided but I it's an important movie to me. So I definitely want to talk about it. And also we need to complete because I noticed that we have a lot of numbers we did Doom to before we did four feathers here. We did three kings, or we're doing three kings. So that means we need a five we need a five in the title and oh shit five bloods? It has a five so we're for sure doing I just don't know when? Well, Shawn, you get what you pay for. Go fuck yourself. Yani. Fuck you. And I want you to know that if I was in a similar situation to Harry, not Heath Ledger, and you went out to war and you gave me a feather because calling me a coward. You know, I would do I would wear that feather with pride and sip on my Yogi green tea as you got blind in the desert and died without me while I just was sat by a warm fireplace and was happy and content in my life and alive. It's okay. In this impossible scenario, you probably wouldn't have even lived to adulthood. So Bob would have killed me. Yeah, no, I'm saying that you would have been so sickly that you probably would have died of the flu by age like six. So by 1889 you'd be dead and then I would be living on Yeah, I'd be blind in the desert, but better than being dead 20 years before the fact. I'm part of the fucking movie. You know, just a nice week.