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In one of our most heated episodes, Sean and Giannis go at it! Sean, the passionate and correct Ocean's Twelve defender, vs Giannis, the fool who thinks this is a bad movie.
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Hello this is Sean and welcome to fuck your opinion a movie review podcast before we get started please make sure to like follow subscribe, write a review of this podcast wherever you are listening right now and please be sure to follow us on Facebook Twitter or Instagram all those are linked in the description enjoy the episode This is weird I can't see you and I want to I don't really want to it's just weird not talking not seeing your face as I do this. Anyways, Hello and welcome to fuck your opinion, a movie review podcast to
Giannis:We talk about the latest movies in fashion crazes. Take it away.
Sean:When when we talk about fashion crazes Please go on tell us more about the fashion craze is that we talk about what the fashion craze is have we explored in the past? What are we talking about this week? fashion craze wise?
Giannis:Well we're talking about inverted collars and especially how they had made such a huge comeback following the release of 2013 her by spike Jones right not Spike Lee Spike Lee's the other he's the he's the black one.
Sean:You know folks right now Yani his cameras not working. So I can't see him. But he can see me and I groaned I significantly grown as he made that joke. which admittedly, I do make that mistake quite a bit myself.
Giannis:I feel like a lot of people make that mistake. Come on. Let's not let's not pretend like we haven't all made that mistake at least
Sean:once. Well, literally the the What's it called?
Giannis:n double A CP.
Sean:Now the spike lee made a movie with I forgotten I'm forgetting the musical artists but he made this like musical theatrical experience for HBO or something this past year, and it was something that it sounds like such a spike spike Jones project that when someone said Oh, Spike Lee directed this, I kept saying myself. Oh, no, you're wrong. It's not Spike Lee. It's spike Jones. Even though you said Spike Lee. I just know the directors enough to know spike. This is more in spike Jones style. And I was wrong. It was Spike Lee who directed it? I was wrong. Spike Lee. Wow. It was the talking heads guy. I don't remember David.
Giannis:David Byrne. Yeah,
Sean:whatever the thing he did this summer. Anyways, we're not a David Byrne podcast. We're not a fashion podcast.
Giannis:I like Well,
Sean:we're only we're a movie review podcast. My name is Sean Giannis did introduce himself though he was wrong and calling me a guest. Because I don't know of any guest on a podcast who has to edit the podcast? Imagine? Imagine you guesting on a podcast and we're like, oh, you know, thank you for being a guest for our podcast. By the way. Can you also edit your episode also?
Giannis:is doing this?
Sean:Yeah, this devote the rest of your life to doing this for no gain whatsoever. Like, only five people in total are going to listen to each episode. I'm really gonna
Giannis:recommend you to my peers. Don't worry, you will be asked to guest star on other on other podcasts. Sure, thanks. You're gonna get that Giannis Ponta Scotto recommendations for approval.
Sean:Okay. All right. So Yani asked me what movie did we pick this week? Or what movie did I pick this week?
Giannis:Hey, Shawn, what piece of trash Did you select for us to cram into rivals?
Sean:Fuck,
Giannis:I asked. I asked exactly what you asked asked me to. That's I don't What's the difference? You said one thing and I pair two. Pair two.
Sean:Pair it and wasn't the exact thing I said,
Giannis:God, exactly. verbatim, you know, down to the down to the pronunciation. I said exactly what you asked me to. Okay, well, well, Giannis,
Sean:in the words of Ocean's 12. Oh, you're mean. That's just mean spirited. And I'm gonna say that quite a bit during this podcast
Giannis:because Oh, he's mean he's just mean spirited.
Sean:Yeah, I had to change it a little bit because I can't say he when I'm talking to you. That's kind of fucking weird. Anyway. ways. Yani to answer your question. The last movie you chose was this French documentary that I thought it was terrible. And I thought about that for like three weeks straight day and night. And then I said to myself, you know, if you're going to pick a French movie, then I'm going to pick a movie bashing a French guy. So we watched Ocean's 12 I picked Ocean's 12. Another reason why the main reason why I picked it though, beyond that, is that I just straight up love this movie. I haven't seen it probably in a decade, but I've been revisiting all the oceans films, and I revisited this one I want to say three four weeks ago, and I absolutely fell in love with it. I can't tell you how much I absolutely straight up adore this film. There's so much working here between the actors chemistry between the brilliance that is Steven Soderbergh and I do stress brilliance just in every category a director can contribute to a film
Giannis:a trade actually, you know, Russia story, but that's neither here nor there. Keep Shut the fuck up.
Sean:Don't even don't even fucking go there with fucking passion of Anna, you dumb bitch. Anyway, you there.
Giannis:Okay, can even compare Ingmar Bergman to
Sean:don't even so anyways. Anyways, so I adore everything about this movie. And then after I picked the movie, it was actually pretty interesting. So over the weekend, I watched this film like three times I watched it first the first time I watched it, I got pretty high and only got through about half of it. Anyways, railing. Very fascinating experience. Let
Giannis:me tell you guys, I'm sure it was I'm sure I'm sure everything made perfect sense. Keep going. Also just food for thought.
Sean:I was reading a Soderbergh interview and he said, Oh, I inadvertently made the highest budget stoner flick of all time. And I'm like, Oh, that's that's not wrong. Then I read as I was high, I came up with a theory, which we'll talk about later. So then I rewatch just the second half to see how much that holds true. And that was when I was so bad The next day, then the day after that I rewatch the film with the director's commentary on all director and writer learned a lot great stuff. Hopefully, I'll pull some stuff here and there, then I watched all the deleted scenes, then I rewatch the movie in total again, and it just never fucking gets old. I love it. I love Love, love, love it. Yeah, rating wise nine out of 10. Like I said, this movie hits on almost every level the exact perfect way that I want something to hit. And I will get into, obviously more of that later on. But that is my introduction. So Yani, that's why I chose this film. Please give me a plot summary for this film, and your best summation, a plot summary. Good luck.
Giannis:Okay. Well, I came up with one a little while ago, while we were first starting, it's probably not great. But it's more or less, you know, a perfect mirror image of not a perfect mirror image but a perfect reflection of everything that happens. The entire gang plus one, but which one? Seriously, I have no idea who they're talking about is the 12th person, please. Somebody clued me into that because they were like three other people they possibly could be talking about. But the entire gang plus one limps back to the barn with what best can be described as a parody of a parody of itself.
Sean:I mean, you're not wrong. It's very meta and self aware and making fun of yourself. And I love it. Oh, my God. No, it's Julia Roberts. I don't know. How
Giannis:are you sure it's not Eddie Izzard, because he's also another guy there. He also helps them out. He's also got like a quirky personality, just like all the other guys. He also does just about as much for them, as Julia Roberts does. So how is he not the 12th? house? Robert?
Sean:What about the bald guy with a tattoo in the back of his head? The big one because he's in all three of the movies. So why don't you just count Hey, man,
Giannis:I can't wait the movie. It shouldn't be called why you been called Ocean's 12. They're like 15 people involved more than 50 people involved this thing.
Sean:This is semantics. This is arbitrary.
Giannis:I know. It's just semantics. But it's like who is I don't know who they're talking about who this 12th person is supposed to be? I know on the 13th it's a little more straightforward because it's Andy Garcia and then I is Julian Robertson on it in the no third one I don't want Okay, so I don't know actually who the 13th is unless no Eddie Izzard is in the in the third one right?
Sean:He has a third one. Yes.
Giannis:Okay. So he's he's counted in the 13 in the third one, but he's not counted in the 12. In the second one, are you telling me that's not just a little bit
Sean:trying to argue one way or another because this is a pointless argument. I don't care. You're trying.
Giannis:It's a pointless movie, your posture,
Sean:your posturing right now I'm
Giannis:not posturing. It's also just a pointless besides all this besides all the semantics, it's also just a pointless movie with no message.
Sean:No, no, no, absolutely not. But I will I do want to talk about real quick, because I'm sure we're gonna lose this. But I think it's very important for me to say, in the beginning, I recently have rewash all the oceans movies, and I know this movie is incredibly divisive. But any motherfucker who puts Ocean's eight above this one, in terms of ranking is just straight up a fucking moron. You're so dumb. I just don't know what to tell you. I think if you put Ocean's eight above this movie, then I strongly recommend that you just stop watching movies, because there's no point because you just can't do it. You don't know how to watch a movie. And you should just, I don't know, turn a podcast or something
Giannis:because incredibly misogynistic view, Shawn.
Sean:Now, here's, here's the thing with Ocean's eight. It has nothing to do with the all female cast as everything to do with the incompetence of the direction and the incompetence of the writing. Now, granted, the direction is partly hurt because Gary Ross doesn't know how to direct the actors. So the actors end up not doing a great job because of his direction, but it is by far by far Gary Ross's fault. And they I guarantee you, if Steven Soderbergh had directed it, there would be no problems. It would have been great. It would have been so snazzy and fun and great. It really doesn't matter if it's an all male or all female.
Giannis:I'm sure if he had directed it, it could have been better than Ocean's 12 which is not difficult to do.
Sean:I don't get this your Marans it just reading not saying oh she's
Giannis:so infuriating
Sean:I don't want i straight up don't understand you people for not liking this movie. Every it's it's not okay
Giannis:good. I don't understand you people for liking it when their clients summer so
Sean:I'm gonna do a plot summary because no do a plot summary. Don't
Giannis:try to explain this plot. Try to do it.
Sean:No, I can do it. It's just, it's going to take longer than it's worth to do. It's gonna take me like five minutes. Do I can't even
Giannis:get time into it. Why? Okay, what you're doing here?
Sean:Let me go real fucking quick.
Giannis:Yeah, sure. Okay, go.
Sean:Okay. Okay. Do so Do it. Do it. Yeah. So do it. The oceans crew in the last movie they stole $160 from casino $160 please
Giannis:all they stole $160 from Sandy Garcia and
Sean:$60 million. Well, 106 we've got to get that back nearly and plus. So they still get money from him. Then he finds them and is like, yo, you better give me my money back in two weeks for I'm gonna kill all of you. So they got two weeks to essentially pull off heists in order. I would love back.
Giannis:I'm sorry. I just have to stop you What? I would love to see the original Ocean's 11 but they're not trying to get $116 million. They're doing all of that just to get 116
Sean:every pretty funny movie actually I beat Dell for that like icon movie where the like, the stakes are medium.
Giannis:Medium. so low. Yeah, insanely keep going. So yeah, like I guess he
Sean:got out of my pocket. Here you go. But anyways, yeah. So Andy Garcia goes to the and threatens them and says you have two weeks to get my money or I'm going to kill you. The oceans crew realizing they're too hot in America goes to Europe. Really? That's just an excuse to go to Europe because it's beautiful. So they go to Europe pull off a job, but when they're about to steal what the thing they're trying to steal, it's a stock that's worth like $2 million. Yeah. When they get to the Save turns out, it's already been cracked by this guy named the night Fox, who is this French thief. And essentially, he is annoyed with the oceans crew because after the success of the Bellagio job that they did in the last movie, they've been touted as the best thieves in the world. And he's like, no bitch, I'm the best thief. So he realizes Well, I don't say he realizes but he comes up with his idea. The only way to really prove who is the best thief is for them to compete against each other. So he says okay, there's going to be This Faberge egg in the museum in Rome. We're gonna steal it what the best steve wynn. So that's essentially the plot and while this is going on Brad Pitt's former love interest, not in the first movie, but in this movie Catherine Zeta Jones is like this not exactly cop.
Giannis:Detective for Europol.
Sean:Yeah, she's a detective for Europol. So she's tracking them and following them while this is all going on, and yeah, then the oceans crew as they do gets the better of everybody. And, you know,
Giannis:by cheating, they just they just cheat essentially more or less. I mean, Frenchie kind of cheats too, but that's just like,
Sean:Oh, it's conning. It's a con artist. Maybe?
Giannis:I don't know. It's not really a con. No, it's not really a con. We'll get into it later. It's really stupid. It's dumb is anyways, Giannis. What
Sean:do we got next?
Giannis:Oh, great. Nothing, actually. No, it looks like there's nothing after the plot summary. It just we just go to the three favorite aspects. Yeah. Oh, just go straight to it. Nothing else? No
Sean:weird. No, kind of weird because I'm looking at sure right now. It says Yogi green tea quote. So I guess I have to give you my Yogi rente quote, and the quote of today is what am I doing with my life? Happiness comes when you overcome the most impossible challenge. And I think that's pretty appropriate for this film today because the oceans crew overcomes the most impossible challenge in you know, beating the master thief the knife Are you know what the most impossible challenge really is getting $160 for Terry Bennett,
Giannis:close. convincing me this is this movie isn't garbage isn't just a flaming trash heap.
Sean:I just don't understand because this movie is even more up your alley than I would expect in what I would normally pick. And yet you still somehow hate it, which just boggles my mind. But we'll get into that in the dislikes. But here's the thing when you try and put your dislikes for your movies first, because you're like, I want to get this out of the way. Well, I always say no yonni we got to stick to the structure. Easy likes first and dislike second, and we're gonna keep to that. So likes first? Do you want to start us off? Or do you want me to start?
Giannis:No, no, you please, by all means begin? Because you have nothing to say I have some things but not much. No, you are not. You're not off.
Sean:Okay, cool. So all the things I like are pretty obvious, but they are. They are just so fine tuned and so well crafted. So number one is the actors. I absolutely love every single actor in this film, as well as their performance and the chemistry that they exude off of each other. It's so effortless and electric. You got obviously Brad Pitt and George Clooney working together and bouncing off of each other, as well as Matt Damon charming and a lot more. But then you also got you know, side characters like Scott can Casey Affleck bouncing off of each other. And these are all actors that they were great in the first movie, but I feel like they were so much more finely tuned in this movie. Like the first one, they were finding their groove. While this one, they've already found their rhythm and are just knocking out of the park every single scene. Another thing I want to talk about here, that kind of correlates my second point is that this film consistently uses single shots as opposed to close up, verse shot close up reverse shot, which allows the actors to really inhabit the frame they're in. But the thing is, that's honestly really challenging for actors and directors to do because it means you have to get it right in that shot. And if you don't, then you're fucked because you have nothing that cuts you know, coverage. And consistently, this film manages to put various actors in one frame and have such great rhythm and great timing, and again, great chemistry and bouncing off of each other in such a dynamic and fun way. So I absolutely love it. I could get into every actor. I mean, there's also I think one of the best examples of this. Fuck, I could name so many instances. But one is that Matt suey meeting scene where essentially they're just given saying jibberish, but the performance and a how Matt Damon is just so out of his element, not knowing what to say as well as all the reactions from Brad Pitt and George Clooney, just literally perfect or the scene where they're waiting for the train. So many little interactions. And again, it's just it's very much a Hangout movie, but it's just so much fun to watch them, Yana.
Giannis:It's, yeah, it's you know, they they all have chemistry. It's all the same chemists. From the first one, it's just it's more diluted and there's less purpose behind it. I mean, ya know that everyone everyone they bounce off each other really great, but there are just a bunch of like totally pointless moments and when you get down to it that Matt Matsui meeting was also like kind of totally pointless. It didn't really mean a whole lot of a whole lot at all. It was kind of just like, oh, here's a really funny scene where Matt Damon's the butt of the joke he doesn't know what's going on. Haha Linus is you know he hasn't stepped up to the plate yet but when he does hold out boiler plating that down
Sean:I mean now it's legitimately funny and turns no it's fun is in term here's the thing
Giannis:that's the problem I think that is like the one of the problems with this movie is it just kind of like gives people a lot of funny scenes and then doesn't actually have the scenes really mean anything in the overarching plot mean if you want to bring up like the the waiting for the train thing, for instance? Yeah, it's funny that they're talking about Danny like looking like he's 50 Haha, great funny. What does that mean? What does that mean to his character? He's not having some sort of like midlife crisis he's not it doesn't affect him. Like later on. It's not a recurring joke is just like a one off thing. And then obviously, they bring us the whole like Julia Roberts thing, first of all,
Sean:okay, no talking about that. Let's hold off on that. Because you're just,
Giannis:well, no. No, at that moment, it's supposed to, like come off as a like one off like, you know, oh, this is like a funny, weird moment that we're not going to hear anything from again. Oh, wait, no, it's going to come back which obviously you don't get that the first time you watch it because that whole Julia Roberts thing is like out of left field and we're not going to get to it yet. But yeah, I yeah, it's there. You know, obviously, it's funny, but the only times that the characters have any sort of like meaningful interactions. The movie just doesn't even decide to broach that. Like one of my what was going to be one of my favorite moments, and was actually like kind of subs or suburb subversive and I can respect it for what it was doing, but still, like kind of ticked me off because it was a very tongue in cheek way of Soderbergh saying, like, Ah, you're not gonna get anything out of this was when Brad Pitt and Danny ocean they were walking along the canal and Danny ocean is talking about like, how he maybe should just hang it up and go to go to the cops because or like Brad Pitt is saying they should just go to the cops and give it all up and Danny Ocean's like, No, well, what else do I have to do? And Brad Pitt at one point, just like walks off? Well, Danny Ocean's getting into this like meaningful admission movie just totally undermines it just totally undercuts it. And I sort of love the hair great. Yeah, no, I know you love it. Here's that's the problem. It doesn't care about characters. It cares about
Sean:your case about me. Watch chastise you chastise me when I don't when I mock your movies, or when I don't have any legitimate likes. And I'm like, hey, Giannis. We're talking about the likes right now. And you just go whaling into your dislikes.
Giannis:Wait for the later in the pod You moron. This isn't one of my dislikes. This is just a reaction to one of the things you liked. Here's my first like, obviously, it's the style. I can't deny it. You know, Steven Soderbergh. But his deal with the oceans movies is that they're all like, except for maybe the first one and like parts of the last one. They're all style over substance. Yeah, obviously, it's really cool. You know, even like right down to the font that tells you the location and the time that that sets up that establishes setting. Yeah, real quick, it's cool down to like a very granular detail. Okay. Nobody
Sean:can deny that because you are just steamrolling. But I absolutely, it's my turn. I know, but I don't want to lose the font. I absolutely adore just how he's constantly fluctuating and changing between font, because in his earlier films, he moreso was kind of like this is gonna be my font throughout the whole movie. For this one, he really decided, you know, fuck it, I'm gonna change things up. Really love. For example, when he does Amsterdam, and just quick cuts montage of the city, and then am st or, you know, going on spell on Amsterdam, or later on when there's that traffic. And we have Rome in big, it's black, and the screen is mostly White and bright, and then follows that up with text in the corner. So that corner is darker and black. And the tax is a different font, given the deadline and swipe and it's just this great stylistic choice. Anyway, sorry, I cut you off gone.
Giannis:I mean, yeah, that's, you know, the editing is great. The coloring is great. The cinematography is great, like all the technical aspects, everything that you know, coalesces into what one might define as the style of the film is fantastic. Yeah, nobody can deny that. I can't argue that. Steven Soderbergh I've said this. I said this in the Magic Mike episode. He has a great eye. He's a great I don't did he edit this one. I didn't actually pay attention to that. I'm assuming He did not edit it.
Sean:Okay. I will say it's fascinating what you're saying he has a great eye. He doesn't storyboard. That's what blows my fucking mind. He'll just get into the scene. Say, for example, the first scene where they're all together. So there's like about 15 minutes in the movie. He told them Hey, guys, just stand where you think you should stand. Everyone just falls into place. And then he figures out the shot selection from there. And it's like, Fuck, man, you did all that just spur the moment. Incredible.
Giannis:Yeah, it looks cool. It's got a very European feel to it. It's very different from the first one and it's very different from the last one to I don't know what else there is to say about it. You can talk about the style all you want and I'm sure actually your next point you're going to get into that a little more now all of your most of your favorites have to do with the technical aspects of this movie and I stress movie it's a film it's any movie through and through
Sean:is just irritate Musa no fuckin and and this is why Oh, you think so? You think you don't I want you to so can punch your fucking face. Well, you'd
Giannis:have to get up on your toes to do that wouldn't you BOD
Sean:What do you mean? Get up? We're both sitting down you dumb bitch. Not only How can you? How can you punch me through the webcam?
Giannis:How is that possible? Turn
Sean:on the your video You coward.
Giannis:You're on you. It's on? No, it's
Sean:not.
Giannis:I don't say that's not my fault. You're on you are hiding because you know you're wrong. No, I know. I'm right. And also I don't think your Internet's great. We've established that you're never shadowstep before that. Time,
Sean:it's perfectly fine.
Giannis:You can't download and upload at the same time. I don't know what it is. What's your number two,
Sean:I got my number two is what you were saying but more specifically focusing on Steven Soderbergh's direction as well as his cinematographers cinematography and how great he makes the film look. His cinematographer being Peter Andrews. Oh, wait, sorry, Peter Andrews is a pseudonym. So Peter Andrews is Steven Soderbergh.
Giannis:Before I go, it's not like we talked about that last time before
Sean:I get into this. I wanted to bring this up with Giannis. What is your stance on pseudonyms? What do you what do you think about people using pseudonyms? people using false names in their works when they project themselves? What do you What's your stance on that? Oh,
Giannis:well, I think the only people who do that are just you know, they're so egotistical that they have to split themselves into multiple personas to be able to handle all the ego that they that they that inhabits their body, but you know, that's just me. Know I'm sure a Steven Soderbergh is a very down to earth guy. I'm sure everybody who has sued has a pseudonym is a very down to earth person.
Sean:Well, unlike some people I know His name's Steven Soderbergh is a pretty down to earth guy. I can never get enough of him. I listened to so many interviews, I read so much of what he has to say he's always so on point. And always so fucking smart. He is smarter than me. He is smarter than you. He's just that's
Giannis:Oh, I don't know about that. But trust me, he's smarter than definitely former not the latter.
Sean:Okay. I also want to we're going to talk about this real quick before I get into Steven Soderbergh. So today is January 27 2021. And folks, you know why that's significant, because we had the whole stock market GameStop boom, today, and it's just been insane. And I, I've kind of been watching on the sidelines, and I'm like, Oh, this is nuts. But little did I know that I had invested in AMC stock months ago, and the off on my grow, and then it ended up getting the boosted the same way that GameStop got boosted. And I told Giannis Hey, have you been paying attention to this? And Yon is like no, what's going on? Because he has blinders on Giannis always has always has blinders on. He never knows what's going on. You know,
Giannis:because Giannis has a job where he can't just be perusing the internet all day.
Sean:This has been over the past couple days. You moron again
Giannis:Yachty has a job where he can't just be perusing the internet all day. And then Giannis comes home from his job and he has more work to
Sean:do. There was an insurrection at the Capitol and we have a new president. I don't know if you knew that one. Because apparently you just don't know anything.
Giannis:I found out about it a week after the fact.
Sean:But you learned about that a week after the fact.
Giannis:No, I'm lying. Come on. Of course I heard about that that day. I
Sean:really, I really would not be shocked.
Giannis:Just finish your story. Just finish your story. Anyways,
Sean:so
Giannis:point of my story. It has nothing to do with this, by the way
Sean:Giannis. Because one of the great things about This movie is that there's a lot of every, I don't wanna say every side character cuz some of them get a bit sort shortchanged. But seven, though, has some really good arcs or not arcs, but just jokes, consistent jokes, and a woman has a great consistent joke line, and which he is trying to foresee the future. So the very beginning, he gets caught by he's seeing the palm reader and Terry Benedict finds him. He's like this. You couldn't predict this. Great. I loved it. But anyways, there's this line when they're all meeting up, and like, how much does everyone know? And he's like, I'm actually up and everyone's surprised. And he's like, well, I've been paying attention in the stock market. You guys didn't see the signs. I saw the signs. So I texted that, to Giannis, and Giannis. He's just like, Oh, well, I don't really know. I'm just I don't really know what's going on. I'm just going to invest in Boeing and not he does. Johnny just still strep doesn't understand what's going on. And he's so fucking egotistical and arrogant to think that his way is the right way. That it's just infuriating speaking to him, because he thinks that I'm sorry, you. But anyway,
Giannis:I'm sorry. You know, I know read it has everything to do with it. What I said specifically about AMC was that it was also I added a little plus and said that they also were able to build $900 million in debt to keep themselves afloat for the for the foreseeable future. I said, in addition to what you said,
Sean:You're not but I'm right, and you're wrong. That's what brought the stock from like, what two to 92 low fours. So that definitely brought bounce it back a little bit. But then what happened yesterday, before all this happened with AMC, but before it actually got super boosted MC ended up selling $300 million of their stock at 4.5 dollars a stock. So they could have quadrupled, they could have made a billion dollars, but fucked it up. So that's hilarious. Which is to say it's a lot has a lot more to do with. Well, it's partly
Giannis:partly read has nothing to do with this partly to do with this podcast.
Sean:Now. It doesn't. It's fascinating. But anyways, it's
Giannis:like the moolaade thing. You better cut this out. It has no point anyways.
Sean:Oh fuck, I'm spilling my sangria. I'm spilling it. But getting back to the actual topic of conversation right now.
Giannis:What are you talking about? We have Andrew
Sean:Berg. So I literally have about a page of notes of how much I love Steve Steven Soderbergh and what he did in this movie. I'm not going to get into all of it. But I will just say that, especially watching the director's commentary, I just adore how many risks the man takes. And a note that I made was that Steven Soderbergh can do more in one single shot than most directors can do in their entire career. And that is particularly highlighted in the first 15 minutes where when we get re introduce you every Ocean's member there's a different like single shot and every one of them is just so well executed and so intricate. I mean often it's just panning back and forth or something but it's done in such a beautiful way but even ones where and the what the shot that made me make this note was when Matt Damon is in the car with Terry Benedict so at this point we have an idea what's going on so we cut to essentially after them having had this conversation it's a single shot with him in the car The car is so simple but it's so funny and the way that Soderbergh a frames them but be the use of the reflection on the car window in the house reflecting on it was just so gorgeous. And the thing is this i thought was beaut how how I do not understand how you can pray
Giannis:that's not even one of the shots in this this film you talk about that
Sean:I also love the openness standard it's not it's not the it's not super standout no is absolutely not maybe
Giannis:not in the movies. Maybe. Watch watching it. It's it's like meat and potatoes stuff. So my second favorite
Sean:finish I have finished. I also love the opening because the opening is the jokes made or not dialogue. They are because of Soderbergh's cinematography, how we shot the editing as well as the performance. It all comes together. I love how Soderbergh really trusts his team, whether it be the second unit director who did the pickup shot on the airplane shot that Soderbergh didn't direct that shot it was someone else He had that faith in that person or later on with David Holmes, David Holmes brings a lot to the score that Soderbergh just trust them with, or the actors between all that and his experimentation. Because with everything that you see in the movie, a lot of them have different versions of it. For example, in the opening that I just praised, there were deleted scenes where he shot it completely differently and they don't work nearly as well. There is a version where they cut it drastically differently. And it also did not work very well. So this is a guy who makes everything look like I got it right the first time but in reality, he's someone who is just constantly tinkering making sure it's the best that could possibly be. And he does that in such intricate detail detail and such small small things. I mean, even the fact that when we cut from the first highs so the first heist is about to begin aired, the music is super loud hyped up, we're like, Okay, ready to go. Then cut to the Europol offices super quiet, visually, contrast, sound contrast, it's so great and out. That scene also is able to set up a lot of what happens but in such a fun, engaging and clever way. I'm gonna just stop myself because I could keep on doing this the whole fucking movie, but it's just needless to say, I think Soderbergh is absolutely brilliant in every single way. Yachty next point screenwriter isn't.
Giannis:So my number two was the night Fox played by Vincent caselle. He's just I mean, Vincent Casals a great actor he's been I'm sure
Sean:what, that's all.
Giannis:It's a lot. Yeah, that's his name. He plays a note Vincent caselle is the actor's name who plays the night Fox.
Sean:Is it now you're talking about? I just listened? Is that not? Is that Vance? Wha not how you pronounce Vincent in French. That's what they were saying on the director's commentary.
Giannis:That's okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Vincent. Vincent. How would I how did you say it were you saying for install? It sounded like you were saying
Sean:I did not vote song and you know so cool. So I didn't even make this clear. This is not me respecting the French cuz Oh no, it's not it's because I just want to annoy Giannis Yana us anywa
Giannis:he's he's perfect in the role. He's he looks the party acts the part. He's his facial. his facial acting is spectacular. His expressions are everything from like, shock to self satisfied. I mean, it's just everything's good. Everything's believable. You just see him as this character. He really just kind of disappears into the role. This was actually the first time I'd ever encountered Vinnie Vincent. So Vasile cast sail, however, Shawn wants me to pronounce it in a movie back in like was this was 2004. So this was the first time I'd ever encountered him. And I've forever associated him with this role. You know, background, I've seen this movie a number of times, and I'll never it's just gotten worse every time I've watched it. But he's like, the one consistently like, good part, at least is acting at least his character. Granted, I think his character is like kind of criminally underused, and also like, kind of turned into a dope by the end, which is sad in its own way. Because it he had a lot of potential, but there's a lot of great stuff. And for once, for one, for one example, he will take my favorite part of the movies movie or 13. He's a dope in this movie. He's a dope in this movie. And he's actually he actually supplies my favorite moment in the whole movie, which is the night before the heist Danny ocean gets a call that he thinks this is a wake up call for 5am. And he takes it it's it's a man with a French accent. So he wakes up and he goes over to goes over to Brad Pitt's door. And Danny's like, Okay, what are you doing? It's time to go do the highest. And he checks his watch. And he thinks it's even his watch like says it's 530. Right? And Brad Pitt's like no, it's 1130 1130 the night before. And what Brad Pitt says is just perfect. To quote Brad Pitt, he says, Oh, he's mean he's just mean spirited, which implies that it's because he made the call to like ret mess up. Mess up Danny's not momentum, sorry, Carlisle's just messing with me stopping doing a podcast to mess with his equilibrium and get him to screw up just like a really funny thing. He you know, we all know about the laser dance scene, the impossible like laser dance slash dodging scene. In the museum. It's pretty clearly a body double but like Still, he does this really great thing after he gets past the field of lasers where he's about the way he's where he's about to fall back into the lasers. And then he leans forward, saves himself swirls around and then as he's walking up the stairs, clicks his heels. Just a great great little moment and is great. And he's got a bunch of little moments like that at one point he's in a disguise with a mustache. Yeah, he is. He is my favorite part of this movie hands down. And the one part I'll be like, I will love this part of the movie.
Sean:He did most of that the only thing he didn't do is like the backflip, but he did most of that dance. That choreography. Anyways,
Giannis:what's your third?
Sean:My third is your third. It's
Giannis:actually the same as my third. And I guess I might actually say, Can you read mine? read your
Sean:mind for a second. I'm gonna say yours because yours is fucking fear rating. So I said, the music
Giannis:and what am I'd say? And he said,
Sean:the music question mark, I guess question mark.
Giannis:I do that would infuriate you. I just love that.
Sean:Because the music is so fun.
Giannis:It's a great score
Sean:is so great. Really, how could you how objectively how objectively could say Could you say this is a bad score? Like No, it's
Giannis:not a bad score, I guess was more relating to the fact that I had to find a third thing to like, and the music's kind of technically, but it's obvious subsidiary. It's like tributary to the style. So like, it's not really a third thing, but I was reaching. I was grasping for straws. They're
Sean:probably in my top 10 favorite film scores of all time. It's so beautiful. I've just been listening to it on nonstop repeat over the weekend. It's so engaging and of the trilogy, David Holmes does a great job in all of them. But I definitely think this is his best work. And everything about it is spectacular. And you've got
Giannis:you've got a pretty diverse catalogue of music, too. There. I mean, it's not just fast pace, kind of like more action II like snappy music. So it gets it gets a little bit slower at times and a little more romantic. I don't know exactly. I mean, at one point, I think he even caught he samples in a Gada davita by iron butterfly for that for the fiber. Shea for the Faberge egg trade off on the train, you know the one I'm talking about? Yeah. I'm pretty sure that that he utilizes a sample of that. And it's it works really well. No, the music is like one of the main reasons. This kind of ridiculous movie has the momentum that it does, aside from the editing,
Sean:the editing, the music and everything.
Giannis:All right, almost everything. Anyways, a lot of things.
Sean:So before we get into our least favorites on p real quick.
Giannis:He's not really going to the bathroom, folks, what he's going to go do is tighten the cinch that's around his thigh. That enables him to feel the pain that that he can't feel on an average day. And you think well, like why doesn't he just drink more? I think he's gotten to the point where he drinks so much that he can't he's he's numbed himself excessively like there's he's passed the threshold of human numbing, and he is so numb now that he can't even feel like a slight prick. So I think what I think he's done is I think he's taken like a dog collar and he's fastened that around his thigh. You know, like a choke collar, the kind you put on a dog when you walk it. He's fasten that around his thigh, maybe like slipped a piece of leather in there. And now he's just like tightening it a little bit more every day, just like that. Just like that monk in the Da Vinci Code, and just a little bit more day by day, he just he feels less and less. Oh, there he is. Okay, hi.
Sean:You know,
Giannis:I left you an interest
Sean:Yeah, because of the shit you say. I don't know if you've noticed in the edits, but I keep most of these just because oh no, I love to some stupid shit. I love the like. listeners. Can you believe that? We keep the pee breaks. I came back you would think I would cut it out. And I'm sure as you listen you go wait I'm listening to this right now
Giannis:but your urinary deposits are so minimal that they only take like like maybe 30 seconds because it's not worth cutting the prostate thing yeah
Sean:yeah. Oh I want to say about price the pros because I forgot to note this. So when I was making notes as I was high I have a low voice recorder and I was making all these notes and before this I was going through them and my note to myself was this is a prostate bro note. And I've got yeah prostate bro because their prostate, prostate bro does have prostate Titus. So I peed at some point. And I you know, I very rarely get high. And for whatever reason, the being hi just made me feel like I just was consistently paying and I couldn't tell if I was not paying or not like what the fuck is going on. So that's for you. But hey, that's a great story.
Giannis:That's such a good story. That's almost as that's almost as bad as Ocean's 12 story.
Sean:Oh my god. Okay, well, let's get fucking into this. Okay, you want to supply your first least favorite? Oh, no, we're trading off.
Giannis:It's your turn. What's your first least favorite? Okay, is it the entire last 15 minutes of this movie?
Sean:That that's what I said. But I kind of did that. I said that initially, because I made most of my notes prior to having rewatch that at all going back. I disagree with that, in the sense that I like the last 15 minutes. For example, the end scene with Vincent castle, is so beautifully shot the Lake Como behind him is picturesque it's like a fine painting. And the the dialogue between the to and the performance is fantastic. The only issue I have with it. Well, actually, there's two first issue. I don't like that Lamarck tells them where the Faberge egg is gonna be. I find that they did it all beforehand. I just, it cheapens a little bit that he told them. And then B as I know, most people, when they say they hate this movie, the one thing they kind of like is that dance, the laser dance sequence. I don't love the laser dance sequence. I think it's a bit overhyped and overrated. That being said, I'm more so feel that because I don't really like the music choice and what he I don't like the music choice. And I think the lasers are so unrealistic and how they look that it's just, it just doesn't feel real. That being said, I love how Soderbergh shoots it. Because essentially, he focuses on the statues in the foreground that are off by the side. And then the night Fox as he's going through these lasers is a out of focus for the majority of it, and it's just it's really beautiful in that sense. So if I didn't have the fucking laser is looking shitty, like they were, I think that would be a lot stronger. And it's funny. David Holmes also did not like the music.
Giannis:Oh, well, you know, they were both wrong, because it's a great song for a great sequence. And the only bad thing about is that you know, you have 2004 CGI lasers in low light. So,
Sean:yeah, and there is more I want to say about this, but I'm sure Giannis is gonna get into t is with one of his little disli e, so I'm kinda gonna save it, ut it's about the plot and ow everything unfolds. Yeah, Gi nnis. What is your
Giannis:My first thing it's actually about the plot? It's about this entirely convoluted plot that was clearly a secondary in the director's mind to style.
Sean:Yeah,
Giannis:I mean, where do I even Where do I even begin? Okay, so you brought up though Matt suey thing we learn later on when we're finally introduced to Vincent Casals character that he hired Matsui to hire them. But how did he know they would go to Matt suey? How did they know he know that the first person they would go to was Matsui and why would they go to Matsui if the best gig that he was able to offer them was two and a half million dollars. I mean, these are guys, these are professional robbers. They're professional con men and robbers they can't find. They can't find a grift or a job that can pay out better than two and a half million dollars when they need to make 90 million to save their assets. All of their all 12 of them need to make $90 million to save their asses from being killed and they go to this guy.
Sean:This is wrong. This is a wrong viewpoint. Because no Tell me why? Well, this is all about who they know. And who they know. They know. This. They know who he is a guy. He's the connect in Europe, everyone knows him. So it is joking. That stablish are made another no things that don't exist. They like saying other things that exist within the world our job merely when they're not a wedding. They wrote they went and
Giannis:they got the Faberge egg without Matsui they just kind of found that on their own. How are you going to sit there and tell me that they couldn't just have found something else on their own or broken up into like three different groups and done three different jobs at the same time and all gotten something that was like, I don't know 25 $30 million and use that combined it and then paid off? Why did they go with the guy who was only giving them a two and a half million dollar job that took up
Sean:half of their time? Because it can potentially lead to other ones? That's what they said. I mean,
Giannis:because it could potentially lead no I paid attention, but they know what he said was paid off. Only 10 times as much. That's $20 million for a total of $22 million inside of a little under two weeks when they have to make 90 So is the next one after the one that pays 10 times as much as the 2 million gonna pay 10 times as much as that. No, they had so many other options they didn't need to go to Matsui but the more they did it when needed that you're moving needed to go up, you know, obviously they had options because hey, on top of all this Brad Pitt,
Sean:I have an option but I hit 3500 Gaming stocks, but I didn't do that.
Giannis:Apparently knows Lamarck, Shawn the option is I'm living in my brain knows where mark and Lamarck knows where the Faberge egg is, even though he's retired, supposed to be dead, but he knows where that Faberge egg is. If Brad Pitt knows this guy, he's got to know other places that can also give him very, very lucrative payouts in the first place I go to mark is Matsui
Sean:in Amsterdam, a traditional Connect? He was not in that position. He doesn't normally do that. And that's a whole other thing. Oh,
Giannis:but they can go to the mark so they can cheat and get the answer with a Faberge egg so they can beat his protege for what reason? Why does the mark wants to help him with that? Exactly. Oh, it's because Mark's daughter just so happens to be Catherine Zeta Jones, who by the way, he could have just basically reached out to as soon as her mother died because once she was deceased, by the way, folks, that's the whole deal. The reason Lamarck, who we find out at the end is Catherine Zeta Jones, his father, which is like kind of obvious, because we keep hearing about Lamarck and we never see his face even though we like flashback to him. He is not in Catherine Zeta Jones his life because her mother lied to her said that he died in prison because he didn't want her daughter to know that her father was Lamarck this fabulously wealthy and acclaimed bank robber. And so she forced us into stay, as john says, life forces. Well, she's really overjoyed to finally meet him in the end. And she's also you know, kind of a criminal too. So yeah, the movie doesn't treat it as if it's a bad thing either. Why didn't he just reach out to her like the moment her mom died and said, like, hey, Daddy's back, I was alive the whole time. You can't really there's no incriminating evidence against me now. Because mom's dead. So
Sean:you're making a idea? Simple, like, no, it
Giannis:really is so simple. It's so simple in the end, too. It's a lot simpler than a Brad Pitt, Lauren Catherine Zeta Jones out into an airstrip, luring her out there and then convincing her to get on an airplane to Come fly with him with the Faberge egg to wherever Lamarck is hiding out so she can finally see him. Are you telling me that's easier than Lamarck who's able to find out where this Faberge egg is going to be? This priceless egg that's worth over $90 million? Are you telling me that is less complicated than him sending a note to her saying, hey, Papa still live or just showing more?
Sean:I have a problem with him knowing where the egg is. I don't know how he knew that. And he shouldn't have just given that information, it cheapens what they did so I agree with that. But I don't
Giannis:agree with hedges jutting out cheap and what they did,
Sean:if he just reached out, keep in mind, he's supposedly dead, or he's also a thief. I feel like there's a million ways it could have gone wrong. where that was, even though he's her father. They haven't known he hasn't. She hasn't known him since she was a kid. So there's far more ability for things to go wrong where rusty even though rusty did betray her in a sense, there's still this love and there's still a sort of bond and trust. So rusty bringing her to him is like hey, you can trust me you can trust that this is a thing. Also, if Russ is the Connect your The thing is, because she's a detective, who knows where if he's if he just texted her, I was like, hey, Papa's here. Can you come see me? That could totally expose him in a way that he doesn't want to get exposed? So this is a way where, okay, I'm, we're connecting through someone I trust to essentially connect us. Does that make sense?
Giannis:It makes sense. But it never in the story. Never in the story, Do you get any sense that it wouldn't have worked that he couldn't have just done that, especially with all the information that's revealed throughout the time he
Sean:had to fake his act? You I also I think so. In fact, he's the greatest of all,
Giannis:because his wife wife, my cousin's wife was still alive because his wife was still alive, and she dies at the beginning of this movie. When he dies at the beginning of the two weeks.
Sean:He just came out and say, Hey, guy, hey, world, I'm gonna mark now that my wife says, Oh, good. You think they want to give a fuck not to
Giannis:the world just to his daughter to his daughter, the person who also has criminal tendencies who wouldn't know. Brad Pitt, even though she knew he was a criminal, no Don't think he's stuck. He goes on boats. He goes sailing, he meets these people in the middle of what ignored. I think whatever is his North France, I don't know where he's living. But he goes, and he meets them there. He's obviously not stuck. He obviously has the means to do it. The movie just doesn't think that you're going to realize he can and I disagree.
Sean:Anyways, and I'm not done yet.
Giannis:No, I'm not done yet. What you said about them not introducing the night Fox until like three minutes before we meet him isn't smart. It's stupid. It's stupid that we don't hear anything about this guy. until three minutes before we're introduced to him. It's just like, Oh, it's about dang time we meet the main antagonist, the main antagonist of this movie, time to throw in some information about him? Well, let's have I don't know somebody who's like indirectly related to him, or indirectly attached to him connected to him. Give us a whole rundown about him. And his and his. I don't know what his instructor No, I'm talking about the guy running into the Euro pole, while she's giving the whole spiel about
Sean:love. And
Giannis:oh, yeah, he loves it. But why is it cut? It only comes in three minutes before? Also, why does Brad Pitt say nothing about the phone? When it's stolen? Why does he say nothing about the phone to anyone else?
Sean:He was embarrassed. I mean, it's pretty.
Giannis:His life is on the line, if he doesn't get $90 million, and he's embarrassed, he can't talk about the phone, which is in the hands of the one person who's trying to track them down, in addition to everyone else has tried to kill himself, but he's
Sean:in love interest. And the thing is, like, he knows that, while she's gonna get on the case, it's never gonna get particularly serious. So it's fine. It's not like it gets
Giannis:pretty serious. It gets really serious. You know, it was serious before she even entered the story. Because, again, they had two weeks to live. Like, it's just a lot of a lot of bare minimum. There's a lot of bare minimums going on a lot of like, oh, we're going to do something cool. We're going to do something funny. And we're not going to expect you to think about how it doesn't make any logical sense, which I'll get into again, with the whole Julia Roberts debacle. Oh,
Sean:my God.
Giannis:What's your second thing, Shawn? Okay,
Sean:I just want to say real quick that one of the fascinating because this is kind of the point that I want to go off of here is that what I think is so fascinating about this film is because of its meta ness, and that's specifically Yannis later point, which we all know what it is. But the messiness of that how and the second half of the film, the actors are essentially acting the whole time the characters are acting, so the actors are acting as at characters. It's this whole meta narrative, and especially because of the commentary, of how these are movie stars who are criticized for essentially just going to his movie set and just hanging out and just quote unquote, acting, and how that's essentially shoving it back on the audience. And like, Oh, you don't like it? Well, this is we're literally just faking it this whole time, I think is fascinating. So the undercut of the essentially Oh, they saw it the whole time, or they weren't in any real danger in the second half. I mean, a that's not entirely accurate. But be it's, I just think there's a lot of interesting ideas and thoughts going on there. I do kind of wish that Lamarck had set this off from the very beginning, though, because I think that would be way more fascinating than him being reacting. So instead of him reacting to what Vinson castle does, I think it'd be fascinating if in the beginning, he and Rusty are essentially like, Hey, we need to essentially redeem ourselves. And we need to essentially bring Catherine Catherine Zeta Jones back into our lives and essentially apologize in a way. And this would be an elaborate plan essentially, to do that, and also get the a and also to fuck with Vincent castle who's getting too big for his britches.
Giannis:I wish they did that instead of that, that would have been so much better if that would have been
Sean:better and they had all the animal elements, they just need to fix that one scene and would have been there Oh, they
Giannis:needed to fix a lot more than that. I
Sean:need to fix that one black and white scene so much more. But anyways, my second thing that I didn't like, and again, this very small, I just don't like the idea of the laser a peg in the final heist. Just because well Julia Roberts thing I'm totally fine with. I feel like this. This movie is more about the oceans. Movies are more about conning and cleverness, or this hologram is technology that a isn't real at least of the time. I don't know where they are right now. But it was not something that they could actually do so it was not clever and kind of just forced And then feel it didn't fit the universe that oceans the oceans movies have established in the past. So I don't like that. That being said to do a Yani Trojan horse and turn this into a compliment, everything they do around it. So everything Eddie Izzard is doing the phone being stolen, which I know you just bitched about, but I love how it's stolen and the comedy that ensues. And also the banter that ensues when he comes is like, Where's my bloody money? And the exchange between Brad Pitt and Danny ocean? George Clooney. Also, you know, I was thinking about this. I want to ask you real quick Yani.
Giannis:No, it's useful.
Sean:Do you feel like in this podcast if we had to say which characters we are like, you're the Danny ocean and I'm the the rusty Brad Pitt. No, no, you're
Giannis:like the tech guy who tries to do stand up and nobody's laughing because he's in a Matador costume.
Sean:Mother Mutt? Did you get that guy?
Giannis:You haven't spent a single? You haven't spent a single cent because you live with your parents?
Sean:Yeah, even though
Giannis:I'm Danny ocean. That's you.
Sean:So you're set. To sell us? You're still Danny ocean, right? So should be called Danny. Is that what I should be doing?
Giannis:I mean, if you want to do that, okay, that's kind of a weird thing to do. I'll call you weird little nerd that nobody wants to sleep with. All right. Well, well, so dresses like a Matador and his stand up. In the words of Vincent.
Sean:laughs at the words of Vincent castle. Well, thank you, Danny. Anyways, Giannis. Wha 's your next? What's your n xt point?
Giannis:going off of what you said about, you know, things not fitting in with this universe? In no universe? Not even the ridiculous universe of Ocean's 12. Does the Julia Roberts scheme make any sense? nor would it work? It's it's just I mean, as soon as you like start thinking about it, first of all, I mean, I have no idea after watching this I have no idea. If Matt Damon getting caught was supposed to be a part of a plan or of him coming up with a Julia Roberts thing was supposed to be a part of Danny's plan. If it was always planned that Julia Roberts would show up in Europe, if it was always planned that Matt Damon would do the stupid Julia Roberts thing? I have no idea. Can you tell that to me? Can you explain that to me what exactly they were they thought would happen. I mean, there when they stole the egg early, and then God intentionally arrested
Sean:multiple ways you can interpret it, there is one way I want
Giannis:you to tell me what it's supposed to be,
Sean:like I said, and like the movies you pick, there are multiple ways you can interpret this. So the way there are,
Giannis:there are not a way to interpret it, when they tell you exactly how it happened.
Sean:The way that I look at it is that Matt Damon the entire movie, he's like, Yo, I want a bigger part very humorously, cuz he's still Goofy, intimidated, everything. But he's like, Guys, I want to step up to the plate, I want a bigger part. So this is an opportunity for him to essentially try and shine. And it's like if we can get the egg gray. But if we don't, it's doesn't really matter at the end of the day, because later on, when he's embarrassed about getting his mom having to pick them up from jail, it basically implies that he could have hypothetically had the jail thing could have still happened with the mom, but maybe he played a part and helping get the other guys out of prison where in reality, he ended up getting thrown in prison as well. So he's not necessarily trying to do that. But also keep in mind they still have to continue to con Vincent castle in order to get the money. So they had to keep it all the way through. So you could argue Oh, well why didn't then they just all get arrested at the same time? And I think to that you can say well, if they all got arrested at the same time then is extremely unbelievable to say these guys were as good as they were they need to continue to essentially fuck with Vincent castle. So you can say that's a character defect or you can say they had a plan it doesn't really matter what No way
Giannis:No, no Vincent castles character was so self satisfied that if they'd all gotten arrested, I think he would have just laughed it off and not cared he would have just I
Sean:think they were in I think he would have been like that would have been the most direct route also. But there's an also I was reading this before there's also an argument to be made that Danny ocean wanted the brain tests into this because there were no real stakes at this point. And he's like, because the entire her arc in these movies is Danny I want you to stop being a thief. I want you to stop lying to me. I'm tired of this. And he's kind of implies the whole time and how these movies set it up as this is Not the real world. This is more fun and a thrill. So by him essentially kind of tricking tests into doing this, he's showing her a little bit of his world and how much fun and enjoyable it can by endangering her. I just said giving her wested
Giannis:but by in Daraa getting arrested,
Sean:they had an egg.
Giannis:They had a dead Shawn, what's the exit plan? What's the exit plan that somebody comes in attending to be that comes? Someone comes in pretending to be a secret agent takes them away? And then everybody finds out about this after the end of the movie, and then they can never travel abroad again, is that it is is that what the brilliant?
Sean:No, that if you seen Bourne Identity, Matt Damon has a bunch of passports he can be was it like Michael Caine? No, no, it was it. JOHN Michael Caine. I think it is something like that. Yeah,
Giannis:a lot of people are pretty it can be they're pretty keen to Danny ocean at this point. They've seen his face a lot of them. And also on top of that, let's not forget the fact that now Catherine Zeta Jones, his character is also a wall. She's also left under mysterious circumstances just totally disappeared. But at the end of the movie, it's like, oh, no, fine. She's going to she's going to a poker night. Everything's all right. Everything's resolved. No one's after them. It's I mean, it's cool. But like, when you think of the implications, it's like, oh, wow, the story really doesn't end here. Maybe it'll resume in the third movie. Oh, no, wait, Catherine Zeta Jones isn't even in the third movie. They just like say like, Oh, she's on vacation or something. I
Sean:don't know what they say to me about the third movie. I like the third movie. I don't like I said, this, I think is far better than the third movie. But what's the third one is this I want?
Giannis:back what the fact the fact that they do it. And even no matter what you want to say, if Matt Damon's in on it from the hole from the beginning, or if he's not the fact that he suggests it, and that the other guys go with it because they think it's the only option left is a really, really dumb idea that I can't believe anyone would have ever thought could work. I mean, it's fun
Sean:to work they didn't. It was not about getting the trick in the eye. I don't want to tell you,
Giannis:Damon, Matt Damon thought it would work. Matt Damon.
Sean:Characters not the smartest guy and
Giannis:here's the thing. Here's the thing, even if the characters not the smartest guy the movie tells you that this is their only option. Now. The movie is operating on the assumption that the movies. Yeah. It's a good trick box is what I'm saying. Like the point of the movie. It's not a good trick. It's a great mix. It makes it look dumb. It makes you not respect what's going on in the movie for 20 minutes? No, because the Julia Roberts thing is dumb. Because somebody who has met Julia Roberts would not believe it's her if there's a completely different person standing in front of them who just happens to look like Julia Roberts. Sean, you look like a short Tom Green. That doesn't mean if you walk into the room and somebody tells me that you're Tom Green and you're pretending to be Tom Green that I'm going to believe you're Tom Green.
Sean:Let me let me tell you this. If someone printed out a picture of an axle of an anus and just plastered it in front of me and said is this Giannis? 'd say I can't tell the differe ce between Giannis this picture nd an actual picture of Giannis. It's the same thi
Giannis:Okay, that's you don't have you don't have like an actual your your argument is that it's just meta and it's funny and it works because the rest of the move is making
Sean:a joke. I'm not making an argument with that right now. But my actual argument is, let me think what CRB reflect on what you just said real quick. So you said that no one would buy it right. So that you can't lie it
Giannis:will a similar intimate with her people don't look that similar. You don't look that similar. She's also not an actress.
Sean:But she all but the Paul point is Yeah, sure. You can say people generally don't look that similar. But But Bruce Lee Julian
Giannis:Bible, he was the Bible. He will tell you, if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.
Sean:He was suspicious because there was no time he was this. No, he
Giannis:wasn't he everybody believed it was everybody. He looked, he looked across the hotel lobby, which by the way, let's just I'm not even going to talk about how stupid it is that Bruce Willis just so happens to be in this lobby at the same time. But he looks across the lobby from a distance and he's like, Oh, shit, yeah, that is her. That is totally her. And then he goes up to her hotel room, and he's like, oh, how are your kids you're you've had he knows the name of her, her agent and her doctor. He knows this. By the
Sean:way, all the names of the agent and the doctor, everybody
Giannis:doesn't matter. Oh my God, why does it matter? It's
Sean:what makes those jokes so kind of funny.
Giannis:And yeah, where does car rider come in car ride. come in on all of this does he just like show up out of nowhere? At what point did he become involved in the scheme again? Okay, if
Sean:you want to criticize the call call Reiner thing. I agree with you. Because a when he steps out even though I know this was a shooting schedule thing, but him stepping out was so out of character compared to the first movie, where he basically chastises Danny for being like, You think I'm not part of this? I can't do it. But I'm gonna put you know, I want to be like a little bitch, bitch. And like that last
Giannis:check of mine.
Sean:And they hadn't come back. Yeah, I agree with that. But the Julia Roberts meta joke is so fun. And I enjoy it so much. And the thing is, no, no, he has no choice. And I love that sort of humor you do? I do do with my own writing. I do that all the time. I mean, I remember in high school once, I was trying to do a little, you know, stage play or skit or something for like a talent show. Or actually, no, I think it was like Christmas mass. I think there was the Christmas mask because we I went to a Catholic school and we're all going to get together. And I'm like, Hey, can we do this little christmas skit, and I wrote it like a little parody. I can't remember what the story was. But essentially, it was like affectionately poking fun at all my teachers. I'm like, this is gonna be so great because it's like slight humor that everyone's gonna get and I think they would adore and be great. immediately got shut down by the principal. But Yep, I love that kind of humor. I love that kind of jokes. And you do the Julia Roberts bit of at all is I love the authenticity too. I mean, every little bit between bash or Don Cheadle saying you got to get the accent right when he's been mocked about getting his accent, right? Not a little bit about that. I love my but my favorite quote. And I wrote this
Giannis:down just a really dumb 20 minute segue into a really disciplined act.
Sean:So when Matt Damon is talking to Bruce Willis, and he says, So Julia Roberts is pretending to be pregnant while she's actually pregnant at the time, but she's pretending to be pregnant as tests. It's weird to say she's playing a role playing herself. But anyways, Matt Damon is talking to Bruce Willis. And he says, we're looking to come off this pregnancy thing strong. You know, that little statue on the mantel starts smirking at you after a while know what I'm saying. And the fact that Julia Roberts has an Oscar for Erin Brockovich, which she won for a state which is a Steven Soderbergh movie that Matt Damon also has an Oscar but it's telling this to Bruce Willis, who does not have an Oscar is just so many so many layer jokes and well I don't know why you don't find that funny, huh? I don't know. Maybe you're just still cuz it just it just drags
Giannis:and drags Hollywood see and dress Hollywood celebrity culture into a movie where it has no place belonging
Sean:but the thing is, this whole film is almost an essence. First Hollywood sauce not a highlight. It's not. And it's more on the first it's
Giannis:Oh, it's marking it and then it just never comes back to market ever again.
Sean:Way back as the movie ended
Giannis:what what I wanted to point was going to mo and then there's a third movie. Then there's a third movie where Julia Roberts, Chappelle Yeah, cuz
Sean:that's not shit that can't get
Giannis:because it wasn't good or it wasn't smart. My last dislike because I want to be finished with this because I'm tired of talking about this. I can tell that you're you just cannot. You're just obstinate here. Yeah, cuz like, all the time, who built that intricate scale model of the Galleria to art? Roma, the one built it who built that scale model that they were looking at when they were planning the heist. Oh, Fuck you. Fuck they were in that warehouse for all of two days. Where did they get it? who built it? It was intricate down. It was like a perfect scale model. down to the last detail. They knew every single room every single chord or every single fucking column. At that building. They knew where it was. I bet you I bet you I bet you set department took a week building that thing. At the least it took a week to build that thing. So that's just a small thing. So much wrong with this movie. I don't have time down even to its smallest detail.
Sean:Right now. So I don't know if you remember Ocean's 11 quite well, I just re watched it again. I love that movie. very fond of it. There is a scene in which Brad, Danny ocean first recruits rusty, and they're looking at these plans. And then the security card comes up on them and you think oh man, his security guard Got him. And then he's like, Hey, can you mind if I take these home and the guy's like, yeah, sure, whatever you want any because he has that nice, kindly repertoire and maybe pay them off for it. unclear. But all that is to say that I would assume he did a similar thing that scale model had already existed and they knew the person to contact to get into contact with to get that and probably were like, Hey, can we just borrow this for like two days? And because that's how the oceans movies work, either again paying off or through their charm and friendliness or their connections, whatever it might be. That's how they got it. So I don't think that's a real nitpick you can give it but whatever. Oh, no, I
Giannis:think that's totally valid.
Sean:Absolutely not. It's not valid moving. Moving on.
Giannis:Those are my final thoughts. Final thoughts. Sean doesn't have a third dislike
Sean:I do I do. I just left it off. Hey, folks, before we get into my third point, I want to just note that this is an alternative third point actually had a more legitimate third point, but unfortunately Yani vetoed it. Now, you might be asking yourself, Shawn, why did Yani veto your third point? Look, it's not in my nature be mysterious, but I can't talk about it. And I can't talk about why. So Alas, here is my third point. Third thing so like the one thing that has not aged well is the the use of the R word which is used twice in this movie first by Topher Grace and Emily funny scene and what she says I found in that tober grace, I found in that Dennis Quaid movie which everyone says is in good company, but I think it's traffic another Soderbergh movie anyways. So they use it then and they use it later. And it's just I just don't like that they use that term and I just don't know why they why they want to be that kind of organization that would use that kind of term. So what I did there I I took a joke from the movie and turn it around on its head, you know,
Giannis:because earlier in the movie, Matt Damon talked about not wanting to be the kind of organization you know, that steals from a handicapped person yet but they are and they did yeah, and they also they use that R word. Yep.
Sean:Anyways, that's all I got Giannis final though
Giannis:I don't like this. I'd liked it as a kid but the more I started paying attention to plot and characters the less I like this, I like it even less now. I'm sure if I watch it in five years, I like it even less than that being said, I can be objective about style I can be objective about craft. I was objective about Magic Mike, even though I thought that was stupid to Steven Soderbergh great technical director. He didn't shoot this one. But I know he did edit this one, but he did shoot it. He's also a great cinematographer. He knows this thing knows, knows how to produce a fine looking cool picture, even if the character's decisions and what they're doing is unintelligent, or convoluted and doesn't make sense. And my final rating, can I do decimals? Have I done decimals before? I don't think I've done decimals. I'm gonna do a decimal. I'm gonna give this one. Let's see what I get Magic Mike. Now he's better than
Sean:Mike. You're not allowed to do decimals of doing decimals. No, you can't do that better than magic by complete asshole this entire time. You don't deserve a decimal. You bet you don't deserve it. Or defy you. If you want to use it. You can't defy me. I defy you. I defy you. I
Giannis:said podcast, I thought I thought I was just a guest, but apparently I'm a co host. I have an equal voice. Okay. Okay. No, I haven't. Right. Cool. All right. You deserve it. You are.
Sean:You do what I say. So no decimals?
Giannis:Well, just like Lamarck. I'm gonna do what you weren't expecting me to do. And I'm going to go with a decimal and I'm going to give this one a six. No 5.9 There we go. 5.9 out of 10 It's better than Magic Mike, which I gave a 5.7 but it's probably not as good as Molly's game.
Sean:You know, Giannis? I'll ay you a million dollars. If ou don't speak for a whole month a million dollars. I swear to G d, this whole month. Don't spe k. You know, wha
Giannis:funny is if you had invested in GameStop, three days ago, you might actually have a million dollars right now.
Sean:I did the calculations. I was looking at it. So in April GameStop was trading at like $2. So if I invested like, I don't know, $100, then I'd have several $1,000 now, it's insane. It's insane. And what's his shot? Isn't that just kind of that's just like
Giannis:a just like a shot to the gut thinking about it now. Anyway,
Unknown:so what are we watching? What
Sean:are we gonna what piece of garbage in a watch? are we watching next week?
Giannis:You know, what are we going to watch next week? I was thinking maybe we might add another French film to the mix. Kill me now. And so I thought who makes really good French who's one of the best French filmmakers out there? I think Is it? Truffaut? Is it? ghadar? Is it Bressan? Well, they're all pretty good. But you'll notice I didn't say one name john Pierre Melville. Famous for making cops and Rob films about cops and robbers. I could go with a samurai. I could go with on fleek. But you know what, Shawn, I'm reading on that you tried to watch? Yeah, but you couldn't make it 30 minutes into which is also about a high,
Sean:like 40 I think 4045 so why
Giannis:don't you Why don't you Why don't you put on your shoes, take a little and take a little hop into the Le cyclo who's because that's what we're watching next week. Sound is terrible. I don't hear a Melville's his masterpiece
Sean:it's not literally a piece of shit. You this the cinematography I don't know maybe it goes gangbusters in the second half but I can just tell you right now it's a piece of shit it's ugly to look at it's not good. It to the stories lashes thing the carriers are a
Giannis:lot of inspiration from Melville.
Unknown:Probably look it up. In fact, that'd
Giannis:be really fun. Come back in a week and tell me Soderbergh wasn't in any way shape or form. I'm
Sean:sure heavily inspired by Melvin plus the end may have better he said, there's interesting things, but I'm gonna actually do a good that's what he said. So you know, what Yani fuck you?
Giannis:Fuck you, Fuck, Ocean's 12 and to some extent, for making it, Steven Soderbergh
